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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Jul 23, 2014 3:36:53 GMT
I come across many Paladins who call themselves "Tank Build". I ask them what their build is and they reply by saying "VIT/INT/DEX" and wear HP gear.
I think they are confused.
I'm VIT/STR/DEX, so if they are a "Tank Build" then it means I am not a "Tank Build" whereas I've shown to many that I can tank well enough to solo difficult bosses. So what makes them any different?
They will wear HP gear and boost their HP to 100k+. I will wear the same gear and also be 100k+ HP.
They will wear damage mitigation gear, I will wear the same and we will receive same damage.
They will have high DEF due to VIT. Guess what, so will I.
They will talk about MDEF. 1k MDEF is -1k magic damage fixed. Sure, I will receive 8k magic damage, and they will receive 7k (or even 6k for the sake of argument). Really. It isn't something game breaking. I receive far more damage than that and live to tell about it.
So to clear things up, I'm sending out a message. A true Tank build is built like this:
VIT>AGI>INT
You will have evasion which is tantamount to 100% damage mitigation on each success
Whatever passes through your evasion will be mitigated by your def skills or your MDEF
You will have damage mitigation and/or evasion gear/xtals/abilities
You will have good amount of HP to take multiple damage
You can call yourself tank build and no one will argue about it
VIT/INT/DEX is magic sword guardian (not true tank build)
VIT/DEX/STR is special sword guardian (not true tank build)
Although both are naturally able to tank.
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Post by tiras on Sept 5, 2014 4:57:58 GMT
Def and Mdef are not "subtracted" from damage you take. They are divided. If you want proof go to Eternity Maze Floor 36-40 and find the question reguarding DEF stat. A tank paladin clearly uses all their resources focuing on their defensives which gives them that title. Your VIT DEX STR build cant tank magic at all but it will deal greater damage and in many ways i can not seem to find words to explain, but the trade off is not worth it and you can not compare your build to that of a tank build.
Example:
Base damage dealt 1000 divided by 50def takes it down to 200 damage recieved.
Versus your thoery of 8000damage subtracted by 1000mdef and recieving 7000damage. (No game creator is that stupid)
In reality the 8000 damage dealt is divided by 1000 mdef and you recieve 8 points of damage. You better believe it. It is very much true.
Whether it is DEF or MDEF it is divided nonetheless and every paladin should know this.
Ironically Magic Swords give more atk than Special Swords so a max INT VIT DEX still outclasses STR VIT DEX. I can not fathom the purpose of paladins building damage over defense(mdef also...duh) when paladins greatest strength comes from their own defense. You may have the same HP and DEF, but dont let that blind you from how quickly you succum to magicial attacks compared to a Tanker.
The fact that so many people believe damage build paladins are better made me create a forum account just to open the eyes of those who are blinded by the makings of a true tanker.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Sept 5, 2014 5:16:25 GMT
Def and Mdef are not "subtracted" from damage you take. They are divided. If you want proof go to Eternity Maze Floor 36-40 and find the question reguarding DEF stat. A tank paladin clearly uses all their resources focuing on their defensives which gives them that title. Your VIT DEX STR build cant tank magic at all but it will deal greater damage and in many ways i can not seem to find words to explain, but the trade off is not worth it and you can not compare your build to that of a tank build. Example: Base damage dealt 1000 divided by 50def takes it down to 200 damage recieved. Versus your thoery of 8000damage subtracted by 1000mdef and recieving 7000damage. (No game creator is that stupid) In reality the 8000 damage dealt is divided by 1000 mdef and you recieve 8 points of damage. You better believe it. It is very much true. Whether it is DEF or MDEF it is divided nonetheless and every paladin should know this. Ironically Magic Swords give more atk than Special Swords so a max INT VIT DEX still outclasses STR VIT DEX. I can not fathom the purpose of paladins building damage over defense(mdef also...duh) when paladins greatest strength comes from their own defense. You may have the same HP and DEF, but dont let that blind you from how quickly you succum to magicial attacks compared to a Tanker. The fact that so many people believe damage build paladins are better made me create a forum account just to open the eyes of those who are blinded by the makings of a true tanker. Where did you get all of this misinformation? |
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aroxis
Member
I liek cupcakes .-.
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Post by aroxis on Sept 5, 2014 5:26:08 GMT
Def and Mdef are not "subtracted" from damage you take. They are divided. If you want proof go to Eternity Maze Floor 36-40 and find the question reguarding DEF stat. A tank paladin clearly uses all their resources focuing on their defensives which gives them that title. Your VIT DEX STR build cant tank magic at all but it will deal greater damage and in many ways i can not seem to find words to explain, but the trade off is not worth it and you can not compare your build to that of a tank build. Example: Base damage dealt 1000 divided by 50def takes it down to 200 damage recieved. Versus your thoery of 8000damage subtracted by 1000mdef and recieving 7000damage. (No game creator is that stupid) In reality the 8000 damage dealt is divided by 1000 mdef and you recieve 8 points of damage. You better believe it. It is very much true. Whether it is DEF or MDEF it is divided nonetheless and every paladin should know this. Ironically Magic Swords give more atk than Special Swords so a max INT VIT DEX still outclasses STR VIT DEX. I can not fathom the purpose of paladins building damage over defense(mdef also...duh) when paladins greatest strength comes from their own defense. You may have the same HP and DEF, but dont let that blind you from how quickly you succum to magicial attacks compared to a Tanker. The fact that so many people believe damage build paladins are better made me create a forum account just to open the eyes of those who are blinded by the makings of a true tanker. Where did you get all of this misinformation? I don't really see whats misinformative here, could you elaborate? I looking foward to a mature and proper *cough* debate. This seems like a very important topic owo. I'd also like to know which really is the best tank build ._. |
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Sept 5, 2014 5:43:25 GMT
Where did you get all of this misinformation? I don't really see whats misinformative here, could you elaborate? I looking foward to a mature and proper *cough* debate. This seems like a very important topic owo. I'd also like to know which really is the best tank build ._. DEF and MDEF divide damage is misinformation. I have 485 DEF unbuffed. Megas can hit me with 1k physical. Imagine how much damage it would do to my enchanter who has 4.9k HP and 49DEF if I follow his logic that DEF divides damage. (1k dmg x 485 DEF = 485,000 dmg, 485,000 dmg / 49 DEF = 9897dmg) . In the same aspect, my enchanter has 1036MDEF, my pally has 101MDEF. I get hit with 1.5k magic damage on my enchanter. Imagine how much damage it would do to my Pally: 1500dmg x 1036MDEF = 1,554,000dmg, 1,554,000 divide by 101MDEF = 15,386dmg I wouldn't even dare solo Mega Roches if the damages were like that. Magic swords gain more ATK than Special swords is misinformation. Do I even need to explain this? Weapon types and stat progression are the basics that even new players know. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 6:13:57 GMT
I come across many Paladins who call themselves "Tank Build". I ask them what their build is and they reply by saying "VIT/INT/DEX" and wear HP gear. I think they are confused. I'm VIT/STR/DEX, so if they are a "Tank Build" then it means I am not a "Tank Build" whereas I've shown to many that I can tank well enough to solo difficult bosses. So what makes them any different? They will wear HP gear and boost their HP to 100k+. I will wear the same gear and also be 100k+ HP. They will wear damage mitigation gear, I will wear the same and we will receive same damage. They will have high DEF due to VIT. Guess what, so will I. They will talk about MDEF. 1k MDEF is -1k magic damage fixed. Sure, I will receive 8k magic damage, and they will receive 7k (or even 6k for the sake of argument). Really. It isn't something game breaking. I receive far more damage than that and live to tell about it. So to clear things up, I'm sending out a message. A true Tank build is built like this: VIT>AGI>INT You will have evasion which is tantamount to 100% damage mitigation on each success Whatever passes through your evasion will be mitigated by your def skills or your MDEF You will have damage mitigation and/or evasion gear/xtals/abilities You will have good amount of HP to take multiple damage You can call yourself tank build and no one will argue about it VIT/INT/DEX is magic sword guardian (not true tank build) VIT/DEX/STR is special sword guardian (not true tank build) Although both are naturally able to tank. I kind of disagree with the fact that your saying VIT/INT/DEX isn't a true tank build. Yes they use INT/DEX as a magic sword, but thats not all they can do. VIT/INT/DEX can use spec sword when they are 200+ (because they'll have sufficient DEX around that time for other spec swords like wound transfer). I think VIT/INT/DEX imo is the best tank cus it provides you both magic and physical resistance overall, saying that they are not a true tank build is kind of insulting us, they can choose to use other gears, they do not need to fixtate on using magic swords. STR has never provided any def or any form of resistance when tanking so why is it the "tank" stat they must use? (I already know that guardian is better damage with str, but that doesn't give it more aggro with more damage, hate equipment does). To be honest if you were to have 100k+ HP with bosses that do magic attacks and you had no magic resistance bosses (that comes down to gear, but most would prefer to use their tank hp gear overall) would clearly cut through your hp like melted butter. |
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Sept 5, 2014 6:24:26 GMT
I come across many Paladins who call themselves "Tank Build". I ask them what their build is and they reply by saying "VIT/INT/DEX" and wear HP gear. I think they are confused. I'm VIT/STR/DEX, so if they are a "Tank Build" then it means I am not a "Tank Build" whereas I've shown to many that I can tank well enough to solo difficult bosses. So what makes them any different? They will wear HP gear and boost their HP to 100k+. I will wear the same gear and also be 100k+ HP. They will wear damage mitigation gear, I will wear the same and we will receive same damage. They will have high DEF due to VIT. Guess what, so will I. They will talk about MDEF. 1k MDEF is -1k magic damage fixed. Sure, I will receive 8k magic damage, and they will receive 7k (or even 6k for the sake of argument). Really. It isn't something game breaking. I receive far more damage than that and live to tell about it. So to clear things up, I'm sending out a message. A true Tank build is built like this: VIT>AGI>INT You will have evasion which is tantamount to 100% damage mitigation on each success Whatever passes through your evasion will be mitigated by your def skills or your MDEF You will have damage mitigation and/or evasion gear/xtals/abilities You will have good amount of HP to take multiple damage You can call yourself tank build and no one will argue about it VIT/INT/DEX is magic sword guardian (not true tank build) VIT/DEX/STR is special sword guardian (not true tank build) Although both are naturally able to tank. I kind of disagree with the fact that your saying VIT/INT/DEX isn't a true tank build. Yes they use INT/DEX as a magic sword, but thats not all they can do. VIT/INT/DEX can use spec sword when they are 200+ (because they'll have sufficient DEX around that time). I think VIT/INT/DEX imo is the best tank cus it provides you both magic and physical resistance overall, saying that they are not a true tank build is kind of insulting us, they can choose to use other gears, they do not need to fixtate on using magic swords. STR has never provided any def or any form of resistance when tanking so why is it the "tank" stat they must use? (I already know that guardian is better damage with str, but that doesn't give it more aggro with more damage, hate equipment does). To be honest if you were to have 100k+ HP with bosses that do magic attacks and you had no magic resistance bosses (that comes down to gear, but most would prefer to use their tank hp gear overall) would clearly cut through your hp like melted butter. I do not argue that VIT/INT is better at tanking than VIT/DEX or VIT/STR. I was INT/VIT and I know what advantages and limitations that I had. I'm just stating the differences in tanking capabilities. Many over claim their "tanking" capabilities, like it is gamebreaking whereas the mere difference is the MDEF which is around 1k less magic damage. This is a merely a reality check, although I understand it can be perceived to be offensive. |
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Post by potato on Sept 6, 2014 1:53:26 GMT
full tank should be vit int agi
but im vit/int/dex use int for heals lol i cant afford alot of potion
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Post by tiras on Sept 6, 2014 3:03:28 GMT
I don't really see whats misinformative here, could you elaborate? I looking foward to a mature and proper *cough* debate. This seems like a very important topic owo. I'd also like to know which really is the best tank build ._. DEF and MDEF divide damage is misinformation. I have 485 DEF unbuffed. Megas can hit me with 1k physical. Imagine how much damage it would do to my enchanter who has 4.9k HP and 49DEF if I follow his logic that DEF divides damage. (1k dmg x 485 DEF = 485,000 dmg, 485,000 dmg / 49 DEF = 9897dmg) . In the same aspect, my enchanter has 1036MDEF, my pally has 101MDEF. I get hit with 1.5k magic damage on my enchanter. Imagine how much damage it would do to my Pally: 1500dmg x 1036MDEF = 1,554,000dmg, 1,554,000 divide by 101MDEF = 15,386dmg I wouldn't even dare solo Mega Roches if the damages were like that. Magic swords gain more ATK than Special swords is misinformation. Do I even need to explain this? Weapon types and stat progression are the basics that even new players know. Read the first part of my post again. For proof, go to Eternity Maze Floor 36-40 and find the question asking about DEF. The question asks about your DEF stat affect damage you take and the answer is that it is divided. Even the game disagrees with your Subtraction clause. Those who do not understand defensive stats should stickto AGI based jobs because you're doing it wrong. *cough* Mature debate it is *cough* ... *cough* Sorry... All your bs got me sick *cough* And about your logic between your paly and enchanter... You better well believe it. Dont be fooled to think i havent tried non INT paly and yes i do take tons of magic damage. Also take to account that we are using rounded numbers(like 1k when it is really 1215mdef) and if you passed math you will know that in division every number counts. Your end result of 9k would be a mere 5-6k. Take to note that magic is always stronger than physical attacks. How? If you have 2 characters the same level and no gear. You will find that the base stats for wizard's matk is far greater than that of an AGI hunter/etc. Which is why mdef is almost double that of regular def.(ur 400 def is sad btw...) So take to account that when you are fully equipped max agi with koda and max int with s.rod. Koda user will be 800+ and S.rod user's matk is well over 1.2k. If you're a paly dont bother trying to solo...go back to AGI if you want that luxury. You make paladins look bad boasting about how useless mdef is and etc... I wish you the best of luck in cramming all this knowledge into your brain. I know it can be hard for you. Or you can continue to debate with someone who has tested it all and find meaningless comebacks *cough*(oh im still sick) just for the sake of your thread. Accept it...good game bro Max int with magic sword totals up to 900-1k Katz with max VIT is 800... Why do you bother to argue?... You dont seem to get the picture. I suggest quitting iruna |
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Sept 6, 2014 3:42:10 GMT
DEF and MDEF divide damage is misinformation. I have 485 DEF unbuffed. Megas can hit me with 1k physical. Imagine how much damage it would do to my enchanter who has 4.9k HP and 49DEF if I follow his logic that DEF divides damage. (1k dmg x 485 DEF = 485,000 dmg, 485,000 dmg / 49 DEF = 9897dmg) . In the same aspect, my enchanter has 1036MDEF, my pally has 101MDEF. I get hit with 1.5k magic damage on my enchanter. Imagine how much damage it would do to my Pally: 1500dmg x 1036MDEF = 1,554,000dmg, 1,554,000 divide by 101MDEF = 15,386dmg I wouldn't even dare solo Mega Roches if the damages were like that. Magic swords gain more ATK than Special swords is misinformation. Do I even need to explain this? Weapon types and stat progression are the basics that even new players know. Read the first part of my post again. For proof, go to Eternity Maze Floor 36-40 and find the question asking about DEF. The question asks about your DEF stat affect damage you take and the answer is that it is divided. Even the game disagrees with your Subtraction clause. Those who do not understand defensive stats should stickto AGI based jobs because you're doing it wrong. *cough* Mature debate it is *cough* ... *cough* Sorry... All your bs got me sick *cough* And about your logic between your paly and enchanter... You better well believe it. Dont be fooled to think i havent tried non INT paly and yes i do take tons of magic damage. Also take to account that we are using rounded numbers(like 1k when it is really 1215mdef) and if you passed math you will know that in division every number counts. Your end result of 9k would be a mere 5-6k. Take to note that magic is always stronger than physical attacks. How? If you have 2 characters the same level and no gear. You will find that the base stats for wizard's matk is far greater than that of an AGI hunter/etc. Which is why mdef is almost double that of regular def.(ur 400 def is sad btw...) So take to account that when you are fully equipped max agi with koda and max int with s.rod. Koda user will be 800+ and S.rod user's matk is well over 1.2k. If you're a paly dont bother trying to solo...go back to AGI if you want that luxury. You make paladins look bad boasting about how useless mdef is and etc... I wish you the best of luck in cramming all this knowledge into your brain. I know it can be hard for you. Or you can continue to debate with someone who has tested it all and find meaningless comebacks *cough*(oh im still sick) just for the sake of your thread. Accept it...good game bro Max int with magic sword totals up to 900-1k Katz with max VIT is 800... Why do you bother to argue?... You dont seem to get the picture. I suggest quitting iruna Is this the question you are referring to? 3 : How is the value of the DEF stat, which applies to points on various pieces of equipments, used? Answer : It divides physical damage If so, then you are basing all your misinformation on a simple Q & A that you didn't understand. The question and the answer is correct, but your understanding of it is wrong, because the DEF stat being referred in the question is the DEF stat found on equipment. I don't really need to argue with you because you based all your stuff on things you don't understand. Keep trolling. |
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Post by godofafro on Sept 6, 2014 4:05:32 GMT
3 : How is the value of the DEF stat, which applies to points on various pieces of equipments, used? Answer : It divides physical damage tiras, your right about eternity maze question that def stat divides physical damage, how about magic def stat dividing magic damage? edit: here are some examples of my test on magic defense i have a assassin possessing 899 mdef, and ghost lanterns hits me for roughly 77-151 damage. vs my monk in comparison who have 121 mdef and ghost lanterns hits him for 953-1006 damage Note: monk possesses in total around -4% magic resist, from skills and equips can mili help tabulate whether does mdef divides or just merely somehow subtracts? will appreciate it, thanks and yes...re read mili post and my statement earlier was slightly incorrect. Asobimo officially stated def from equips divides phy dmg, but have not officially stated any otherwise, hence we here must conduct tests.. lol hopefully this thread can move unto a more positive mood here, with these data |
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Post by Eris on Sept 6, 2014 4:37:20 GMT
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Sept 6, 2014 5:10:01 GMT
3 : How is the value of the DEF stat, which applies to points on various pieces of equipments, used? Answer : It divides physical damage tiras, your right about eternity maze question that def stat divides physical damage, how about magic def stat dividing magic damage? edit: here are some examples of my test on magic defense i have a assassin possessing 899 mdef, and ghost lanterns hits me for roughly 77-151 damage. vs my monk in comparison who have 121 mdef and ghost lanterns hits him for 953-1006 damage Note: monk possesses in total around -4% magic resist, from skills and equips can mili help tabulate whether does mdef divides or just merely somehow subtracts? will appreciate it, thanks and yes...re read mili post and my statement earlier was slightly incorrect. Asobimo officially stated def from equips divides phy dmg, but have not officially stated any otherwise, hence we here must conduct tests.. lol hopefully this thread can move unto a more positive mood here, with these data I have the damage formula for Physical (DEF) and magical (MDEF) in this forum, because we have discussed this before. I will post it again for the enlightenment of everybody. Physical: Physical damage =(Enemy ATK + random value - self-DEF) × {1- (equipped DEF + refining equipment) ÷ 100} × (1- physical resistance) The formula explains why equipment DEF stat and refining divides damage (in an equivalent of 1% per DEF). Physical resistance also divides damage. DEF from Stat is subtracted (called in the formula as self-DEF). If you can have 100 total armor DEF, or 100% physical resistance, you will take 0 or 1 damage. Magical: Magic Damage formula ={Enemy MATK + random value (About 20% of the 0 to enemy MATK) -MDEF × (1 + MDEF%)} × (1- magic resistance) This shows that MDEF is subtracted, magic resistance divides If you have 100% magic resistance, you will take 0 or 1 damage. I have tested these formula occasionally from when I was a new player at beta and I found it to be true up to this time. |
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Post by AnTz on Sept 8, 2014 6:01:57 GMT
DEF and MDEF divide damage is misinformation. I have 485 DEF unbuffed. Megas can hit me with 1k physical. Imagine how much damage it would do to my enchanter who has 4.9k HP and 49DEF if I follow his logic that DEF divides damage. (1k dmg x 485 DEF = 485,000 dmg, 485,000 dmg / 49 DEF = 9897dmg) . In the same aspect, my enchanter has 1036MDEF, my pally has 101MDEF. I get hit with 1.5k magic damage on my enchanter. Imagine how much damage it would do to my Pally: 1500dmg x 1036MDEF = 1,554,000dmg, 1,554,000 divide by 101MDEF = 15,386dmg I wouldn't even dare solo Mega Roches if the damages were like that. Magic swords gain more ATK than Special swords is misinformation. Do I even need to explain this? Weapon types and stat progression are the basics that even new players know. Read the first part of my post again. For proof, go to Eternity Maze Floor 36-40 and find the question asking about DEF. The question asks about your DEF stat affect damage you take and the answer is that it is divided. Even the game disagrees with your Subtraction clause. Those who do not understand defensive stats should stickto AGI based jobs because you're doing it wrong. *cough* Mature debate it is *cough* ... *cough* Sorry... All your bs got me sick *cough* And about your logic between your paly and enchanter... You better well believe it. Dont be fooled to think i havent tried non INT paly and yes i do take tons of magic damage. Also take to account that we are using rounded numbers(like 1k when it is really 1215mdef) and if you passed math you will know that in division every number counts. Your end result of 9k would be a mere 5-6k. Take to note that magic is always stronger than physical attacks. How? If you have 2 characters the same level and no gear. You will find that the base stats for wizard's matk is far greater than that of an AGI hunter/etc. Which is why mdef is almost double that of regular def.(ur 400 def is sad btw...) So take to account that when you are fully equipped max agi with koda and max int with s.rod. Koda user will be 800+ and S.rod user's matk is well over 1.2k. If you're a paly dont bother trying to solo...go back to AGI if you want that luxury. You make paladins look bad boasting about how useless mdef is and etc... I wish you the best of luck in cramming all this knowledge into your brain. I know it can be hard for you. Or you can continue to debate with someone who has tested it all and find meaningless comebacks *cough*(oh im still sick) just for the sake of your thread. Accept it...good game bro Max int with magic sword totals up to 900-1k Katz with max VIT is 800... Why do you bother to argue?... You dont seem to get the picture. I suggest quitting iruna As far as I know, Mili's vit-str-dex pally hav successfully solo some hardest boss in game at the moment, like Doom n Ardent 170. we, paladin class CAN solo almost all bosses, provided u set ur gears n xtal well. If u cant solo doesnt mean other also cant solo. |
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Post by Prayerz on Sept 8, 2014 6:43:13 GMT
I'll be honest, the only correct statement I read from Tiras is that def/mdef stats divides damage.
Other than that, you're wrong about paladins building damage. I feel paladins should try building their damage. There is enough gear to mitigate for lack of mdef through intelligence, the biggest one being edel hood. My paladin can hit over 1.2k mdef at 60 int due to simple gear switches. 1.1k normal def. Close to 2k atk. It all just depends on gear you use. Also, I prefer dex because im not dependant on exelis up in order to spam guardian. I can use any armor to better boost my hp/def/mdef, and use an add like wolf ear or barbarotita to reach max speed guardian.
Each build has its use, but tbh, int/vit is the most useless of the paladin builds and the most boring with the currently available gears.
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