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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 29, 2014 3:07:22 GMT
I'm hearing alot of stories from this forum that a Pally + Hate Gear still loses aggro. This makes me scratch my head. I would like to hear from other Pallys as to what instance you have lost aggro (not by way of dying) so I could simulate it.
I have a taunt bangle kaphar and wolf ear up kaphar which I never use. I have 2 more Kaphars as spare but never placed it on my equipment yet because I don't see any use for it.
I farm by way of currones and jars and I never really lose aggro (otherwise, I wouldn't grind it). I never really use Provoke 4, just Guardians. The only way I could see that I lose aggro in a frequent manner would be from Vasaria, but that's because it randomly teleports you, so I wouldn't count it as lost aggro. The fact that I can maintain aggro with currones makes me wonder how you can lose it with hate gear. The only reason I would consider using hate gear right now is to Regain/Steal aggro instead of just for maintaining.
I'm currently a low level Pally so it could be a factor that I gain more hate. I currently have provoke lvl3 ability which I get from farming Exelis.
There might be bosses that can disrupt hate rise, but my argument is if a Pally with hate gear can't hold it, no other class can.
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Post by zenant on May 29, 2014 17:01:14 GMT
I'm wondering about that too For your pally, how often do you cast provoke (frequency like once every 10 seconds)?
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 29, 2014 23:16:16 GMT
I'm wondering about that too For your pally, how often do you cast provoke (frequencylike once every 10 seconds)? Provoke around 4secs, guardian every second. But I dont use provoke on my pally. I tried provoke3 on my glad before berserk and It seems to hold aggro for a while. I am actually saving my hate gear for my glad rather than my pally.
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Post by chrona on May 30, 2014 3:49:22 GMT
Nose much English so I will use the google translator, I recommend this so you do not miss hate, gets up Exelis S +20% hp or schingel, then when you fight a monster guardian used 3-5 times and then use fortris that is what caused all the hate you find yourself done previously increase, I always do and almost never lose hate, or if I lose I recover quickly without much trouble sorry for my English. {En español} si alguno sabe español y puede traducirlo mejor se lo agradeceria
te recomiendo esto para que no pierdas odio, consigue exelis up S +20%hp o schingel, luego cuando peleas contra un monstruo usa guardian 3-5 veces y luego usa fortris lo que causara esto es que todo el odio que hallas hecho anteriormente se aumente, yo lo hago siempre y casi nunca pierdo odio, o si lo pierdo lo recupero rapidamente sin muchos problemas
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Post by koutetsu on May 30, 2014 4:08:35 GMT
player who hit 1st get aggro if tanker lost aggro...then u cast provoke dps/support stop spam if necessary
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 30, 2014 4:48:06 GMT
So does this mean that stories about Pallys with hate gear and hate skills losing aggro are made up stories?
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Post by Prayerz on May 30, 2014 5:28:55 GMT
Well my pally is 149, and I rarely lose hate. Only times would be if I take too long to recast provoke, which normally only happens when I farm late at night and start falling asleep. Other time would be if the bishop lets me die, in which case, that isn't my fault. I only really use hate gear other than my Wolf Ear/Rowell when in party with sniper or with a high wizard who has extremely fast cspd and skill delay, like Archii ._.
My gear set usually goes:
Katz/Schlingel | Orichal Hammer/Hp+20% Exelis Up/Schlingel | P.Armor Up/Hp+20% Wolf Ear/Rowell | Stier Up/Hp+20% K.Gauntlet | Jar of Greed | Taunt Bangle (rarely use)
I think paladins who often lose hate just have no idea what they're doing, honestly.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 30, 2014 6:33:45 GMT
I think paladins who often lose hate just have no idea what they're doing, honestly. I would think so too. I did test my wolf ear up kaphar and taunt bangle kaphar on my glad while farming cerberus with a wizard. I asked him to tank first and after 3 hits I provoked it (LvL3) and it immediately switched target. He was lower level so I assume he should be able to gain more hate. Anyway, I just posted this to check from fellow Paladins because I've seen posts in this forum that Paladins with hate gear tend to lose aggro which I would think is absurd.
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Post by ManaKhe on May 30, 2014 6:34:24 GMT
Main classes that will steal hate are Assassins, fast Hwiz, and Bishops spamming nemesis. Guardian is a lot better at keeping hate than Provoke.
If people lose hate sometimes with Provoke 4 I can understand that, because a lot of classes can generate more hate than Provoke spam. Guardian spam however, should very rarely lose hate. I think what is happening is that people get all this hate rise gear but don't have their skill delay on Guardian down to the minimum. If one pally casts Guardian twice while another casts it once and neither has hate gear, than the first one will get twice as much hate. At least that's what I've seen from Paladins who lose hate vs those who don't.
Oh also Samurai are hate machines so them stealing hate doesn't count, that was just them being dumb.
Edit: I also have noticed that Paladins don't generate that much more hate than other classes, its only a little bit more, so they have to kind of go non stop to keep hate so some may not be paying attention and think they should be able to keep hate super easy.
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Post by Almas on May 30, 2014 15:02:09 GMT
What's good amount of dex to be able to spam Guardian without skill delay equips?
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Post by Prayerz on May 30, 2014 19:30:28 GMT
I think paladins who often lose hate just have no idea what they're doing, honestly. I would think so too. I did test my wolf ear up kaphar and taunt bangle kaphar on my glad while farming cerberus with a wizard. I asked him to tank first and after 3 hits I provoked it (LvL3) and it immediately switched target. He was lower level so I assume he should be able to gain more hate. Anyway, I just posted this to check from fellow Paladins because I've seen posts in this forum that Paladins with hate gear tend to lose aggro which I would think is absurd. I honestly do not believe level plays a factor in hate, and as far as I know, there is nothing stating that it does, so I would not even count that. I think it is all a matter of tactics. You have to know how fast your provoke stops with your gear sets so you know when to recast. It can be hard to take hate back in certain situations once it has been lost. Just need more smart paladins around.
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Post by inrdemon on May 30, 2014 20:25:00 GMT
With the exception of lion shield I don't use any other hate gear. I do use exelis up for the fastest guardian spam and the only time I lose aggro is if I respond to a chat during a boss run. Other than that no problems here.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 31, 2014 2:54:25 GMT
I would think so too. I did test my wolf ear up kaphar and taunt bangle kaphar on my glad while farming cerberus with a wizard. I asked him to tank first and after 3 hits I provoked it (LvL3) and it immediately switched target. He was lower level so I assume he should be able to gain more hate. Anyway, I just posted this to check from fellow Paladins because I've seen posts in this forum that Paladins with hate gear tend to lose aggro which I would think is absurd. I honestly do not believe level plays a factor in hate, and as far as I know, there is nothing stating that it does, so I would not even count that. I think it is all a matter of tactics. You have to know how fast your provoke stops with your gear sets so you know when to recast. It can be hard to take hate back in certain situations once it has been lost. Just need more smart paladins around. I got the perception that level plays a factor when I was grinding DWs with my AGI/CRT hunter back in the days. I would always steal aggro from higher levels even though they provide similar or even more DPS than I do. When I party with same level guys or lower level, I never get aggro. I can tank DWs because of my build but I prefer not to because I'm saving pots (well everybody is saving pots, so nobody wants to tank unless we have a healer). What I do is I pause attack whenever I get aggro and resume attack once somebody tanks it again. I have other instances where I can see level playing a factor in hate growth, when helping MQs for lower levels back in the day (because you need their support to kill the boss), but these are just based on my observation. Now I don't see it much because MQ help can be done solo and low levels just need to sit around and watch.
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Post by Prayerz on Jun 1, 2014 0:18:41 GMT
I honestly do not believe level plays a factor in hate, and as far as I know, there is nothing stating that it does, so I would not even count that. I think it is all a matter of tactics. You have to know how fast your provoke stops with your gear sets so you know when to recast. It can be hard to take hate back in certain situations once it has been lost. Just need more smart paladins around. I got the perception that level plays a factor when I was grinding DWs with my AGI/CRT hunter back in the days. I would always steal aggro from higher levels even though they provide similar or even more DPS than I do. When I party with same level guys or lower level, I never get aggro. I can tank DWs because of my build but I prefer not to because I'm saving pots (well everybody is saving pots, so nobody wants to tank unless we have a healer). What I do is I pause attack whenever I get aggro and resume attack once somebody tanks it again. I have other instances where I can see level playing a factor in hate growth, when helping MQs for lower levels back in the day (because you need their support to kill the boss), but these are just based on my observation. Now I don't see it much because MQ help can be done solo and low levels just need to sit around and watch. idk. Never noticed that myself, and i usually just see the highest dps take aggro in ot if no paladin is present. Also, fastest skill spammers take A LOT of aggro. Gotta watch them. Haha
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Post by ReaDaeyn on Jun 25, 2014 7:19:57 GMT
Aggro is apart of Iruna life. There is no sure way to keep aggro constantly, not with all the other classes so super geared up and suited with xtals that decrease skill delay and cast speed. Spammers will always steal aggro. XD
I don't own a complete hate gear set, but owning some type of equipment that increases hate or decreases skill delay does greatly help, like using my fuma vs my katz with a pvk 4 star...(at megaroches).
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