Rocketpower
Member
I thought to miss you, Another to hate..
|
Post by Rocketpower on Apr 30, 2022 20:26:10 GMT
The problem here is your comparing High wizard with a freaking broken Geo monk, Glad and Summoner which they can burst ep6 boss within 3sec.
Just look at Summoner literally broken right now but is it even fun to play that class? All you do is stand and things die. Right there 100% gaming experience very op with 0 skill needed.
If you can kill ep6 boss solo at around 10~15sec I would say that is very good.
Hwiz is very fun class to play and really versatile cuz of "fururu/granita" which makes agi build worth it for your own build benefits.
+If u really are that DMG and kill time hungry just go and make Summoner or geo monk.
|
|
Rocketpower
Member
I thought to miss you, Another to hate..
|
Post by Rocketpower on Apr 30, 2022 20:30:24 GMT
Have fun, try out new builds,stats enjoy the skills and classes...don't be like those rmt peps who build full glass canon and deal cap DMG on Luna and consider themselves very pro.
|
|
|
Post by Owe on Apr 30, 2022 21:40:42 GMT
Imagine only being able to heal, mp heal, and freeze/general ailment support. You’d practically be worthless in a pt… Especially when most of the top tier dps in the game wants the boss frozen and needs to be healed in case of some bs.
😐😐😐😐
I’m pretty sure most hw is better in literally all aspects of their game except maybe when you’re running bosses with the best classes in the game.
Grinding with top tier dps? Even if you just spam freeze, you do more dmg because of exceed.
Soloing a boss? You can set up half of the combo outside of the room and run in and blow them up. They didn’t have to let us do that.
PT without dps? There’s a worthwhile damage strategy now. Not a nerfed copium skill. But the post of bander-> imperial, bander->zero x2 then imperial zero… you can almost literally cut your set up time in half, what are you even talking about anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Undyne on May 1, 2022 15:59:19 GMT
or ya know, like, use Cast time and still do a solid 10m even with the reduced dmg from Multicast? seriously, you just don't want to be happy with Hw, do you? I play iruna from start. Got like 50 differents sets, and tested + think them all. All hw cast time and delay have min cast time, even if you get very high cast spd, but with multicast, dmg continue to lower even if you reach min cadt time. Even with enough cast time to reach this min cast time, you still too slow, dps is too low, and only imperial burst do some damage. You will tell, because no minst ? Other players i play, if you add a minst it's not 10s run but 5s run ( and speaking about ch 6 bosses) . Just stop to find excuses, hw is weak and last up just definitively kill the job. Aside the combo beeing too long, you need memorize where you are in combo, but manage bosse as well. They poison, paralyze, 0 mp, 1 hp, drains mp, etc that slow even you more. Battle is not luna, i don't care about luna, but any ch6 bosse in team with friends. Ok you can do 10m+ burst after 10s, but friends i play with do 1m+ per auto atk lel, or with sin half boss hp after sicarius and do 2m backstab after... Compare hw mechanics with other dps jobs and mechanic is not usable and outdated. Just time you cast imperial with min cast time, they do more than your poor 10m dmg that will never lend Then quit the class and play assassin? Literally all youve ever done is complain about the class. Demonstrated you really don't fundementally understand how to play it while claiming youve played it for years. And compared it to classes that obviously have better dmg in the first 6 sec of the fight. No one here has ever tried claiming new Hw is op. No one. We've simply told you it is now comparable to actual classes. Which you refute with poorly made and researched videos. For the first week you didnt even understand the Bander changes. As an actual Hw with extensive investment into the class i can flat out tell you, youre incorrect. Zero never did more dps than new Hw skills. If you have issues using them, that is a player related issue and not one with the class itself. Seriously, do the actual Hw community a favor and go play assassin. Getting irritated with the misinformed, poorly geared players doomspeaking actual progress being made in the game.
|
|
|
Post by ishayel on May 2, 2022 6:01:25 GMT
A skill that hit will always do more damage than a skill that can't be used because lack of time to cast it. I don't team with geo monk, just auto monk, auto snipes, sins, necro. Have never tell that the new skill is bad, just that it is not adapted at all with actual bosses, and other jobs. It opens the way to solo in a easier way for some bosses, like vapawr, but in other hand makes feel hw players totally useless in team bosses farm. Rate is what it is on iruna. You need do fast ryns if you hope drop something before you die, and runs of 30s is just crap. It's very annoying to be able to be unable to use imperial zero in teams fight. Would be perhaps more usefull vs bosses with 100m+ hp, but in this case, bosses farm would be just boring and surely iruna will not be funny anymore, because time to kill the boss will be like wtf. Just uncommon drops rate when f2p is near 1% rate... Have give up hw to team with friends, can't do combo until the end, boss just die too fast. And without counting that you need manage a long hard combo, boss mp drains, 1 hp, malus, team mp, ur mp, ur hp, where some jobs just do better just with normal atk, a lot less stress for same result. Remember, this is a gane, to have fun and remove stress from your day. Why do harder, stressful for no more reward and even do worst in term of dps. Hw gameplay not adapted to actual bosses gameplay, that's all. Hw is too sensible to hp dmg, mp ( most bosses drains mp or just set it to 0 like every 5s, as hp pot already used one after other, pressing mp pot will make you loose too much time, sometimes 10s before get the mana, and in 10s a good auto job already do 10m+ dmg just with norm atk). Some improvements will probably make the job more valuable, but atm, it is not. I feel so useless in battle job with hw, run is 15s, i am just struggling to get mp from pot during 10s because boss put my mp at 0. Set mana require to cast new team mp charge to 0, remove - 1mn on grigori as, malus hen you cast bander, make as before bander always put you at close range when you get assault, or just up elemental imperial damage to make what a hw is done for, fight from lobg range. Hw need to much parameters to make it playable that it's becomes just unplayable actually on team bosses, just a hit and you loose like 30% of your hp with a boss normal atk in resdam set. When some jobs that don't need half of your needs will do better. Well got friends that definitivly leaving iruna because they play hw and they feel so useless, like leechers. I don't care a lot, i don't play my hw for farm, nkt because i don't have gear for, but because it's not fun at all, even depressing, and i prefer just focus on crafting as my hw have near all crafts at high level, and craft need bag room. Ok i can solo a bit faster some ch6 bosses wirh hw, but just too long and stressy. I prefer just play my tank minstrel or necromancer, that will be more usefull than a hw struggling to try to do a skill while i feel so useless ( in team near all bosses have mp =0 skill when they reach steps on their hp, so every 3-5s with normal no hw team). Hw need as well a slave healer, that most jobs don't need, and it don't compensate 2 rooms in team. I know it well, as best friend wants only play hw, so i am most of time just take a healer to support her.
|
|
|
Post by ishayel on May 2, 2022 6:18:42 GMT
And i am not speaking about me, but about friends and guildies. On team, hw need fast combo like bander zero, because at leadt you can place one per fight and feel like having doing somwthing for the fight. Bosses have their skills and map skills linkwd to their hp more designed to block hw, all they do block them for like 10s or even more, just take a 1 hp 0 mp map skill and rip, you do nothing until end of fight ( as they took mpst of timw around 15s). Auto pot will eat at tentatives to use another potion, or cure ailments you manually chose ( yeah iruna old outdated mechanics and just don't put on a pile the pots you want use manually). So even a ch6 poison will kill you as they near all are absolute ( remove vaccine and put poison). Or dispel ( that is clearly a malus on hw), or skill delay up ( by like 5s, somw seems even 10s), all status are bad for hw. And they removed bander zero as sub dps combo on hw because bandersnatch new moves, forcing us to use imperial ( zero or elemental when we can lel). Remember, for bosses, players always at range, for zero only close range.
|
|
|
Post by Owe on May 2, 2022 6:54:38 GMT
Idk what you’d expect though. Of course there’s trade offs between classes. If your class has a pot reliance and needs to use pots fast… you need to incorporate item delay into your build. Different classes/playstyles require different building in different styles. Yeah you might be able to slap as much damage as you can, but that’s not necessarily the best option. Things have always been this way, it hasn’t changed.
But before these skills came out… there was no option to be able to dps comparative to the classes you listed. Your ACTUAL DPS after cast/delay was closer to half of what they could output, and you NEEDED to use all damage gear to do so. Right? There was no option before, you had to build yourself to be vulnerable, just to do bad damage, why do it?
Now you can build yourself and actually be rewarded. Which is why saying the old system was better is so laughable dude.
Idk I can understand woes for the class, but I also feel as though the potential for the class is at an all time high.
|
|
|
Post by nani on May 2, 2022 13:09:15 GMT
I dunno if I should be impressed that you still have a response after all the debunking or how you aren't able to adjust to the new changes...
If anything, Amber Heard might need a new lawyer and you might be perfect for the role.
|
|
|
Post by ishayel on May 2, 2022 21:38:23 GMT
I think more you see it as you play with weak teams, it's all. It's long, no usable. How much time to solo a boss? 30s? ( minimum time between 2 kills, so the time you prepare the run, charge the skills count, and time you change map. Because time you doing this, team kills 1-2 bosses.) Tell that i am not able to use the new skills is wrong as well. Have shorten the combo to max and used the right sets to take less damage and do the more dmg with imperial zero. I solo some ch6 bosses, but from scratch, i enter and do preparation and skill in the boss area. Vapawr it's 1 full combo to kill. But it's so slow. Old combo have less dps, but do more dps when fight time is under your full combo time because if you don't hvae time to do full combo, your dps is near 0. You can shorten even more, do minima, but in this case dps is so bad that bander zero spam have higher dps. Have tried all and in fights with end game players, full combo is just bad and not usable. A boss kill ( time between last boss die and next boss die is avg 10s to 20s).
Full shorten combo : Resdam set, buffs on.
Drain Thor hammer Thor hammer Zero ( no bander) Mana stock x2 * Low dps set Spellboost Dps set Bander imperial
The * is when boss die with my end game team.
Damage i do if full combo: 13m to 18m with this combo. Damage i do during run : around 300k.
Short combo : Resdam set and buffs on Drain Thor hammer Thor hammer Zero Dps set * Bandersnatch imperial
Dmg if full combo: 1.6m to 3.2m Dmg i do during run : 300k around
Old combo: Resdam set and buffs on. Bander dps set zero zero Resdam set Mp charge x1 Bander dps set zero zero *
Boss die during this last combo, during bander or zero. Damage i do during combo : 3m to 4m.
So who have the best dps in end game when boss is killed in a blink of eye?
|
|
|
Post by ishayel on May 2, 2022 22:18:10 GMT
A boss that die in 20s, it's a map skill every 5s avg ( 1hp 0 mp, or 0 mp, or big fatal% dmg, or skill delay +5s, or a mix of all, or stun 5-10s, or absolute ailment to team) When you switch set, it's like using a potion, need cooldown of item use ended, and add item cooldown. Automatic hp potion or mp potion ( better hp potion) have priority on player manual use item or switch set. It have item cooldown as any item use. If you took 1 hp 0 mp map skill, you dead. You can't use any item or switch set ( to heal or resdam set in this case) until auto hp haven't refill your hp until limit you fixed. When you take 0 mp, you can't use mp charge if you don't use mp pot ( only items use here). You need switch to low mp set ( to get less than 20% mp to get the buff). You need switch back to dps set to do imperial ( item again). If boss put hurting or nasty ailment you need remove it ( with item). Map ailments are all absolute, vaccines don't works, all absolute ailment are applied abd corresponding vaccine effect is removed)
|
|
|
Post by Owe on May 2, 2022 23:36:25 GMT
It sounds like you need more cspd in your resdam set then (who cares if you go over the cast speed limit if you’re crying about not doing enough dps because of the cast delay). No one said hw is one of the best dps in the game. I said: … there was no option to be able to dps comparative to the classes you listed. Your ACTUAL DPS after cast/delay was closer to half of what they could output, and you NEEDED to use all damage gear to do so. in 10s a good auto job already do 10m+ dmg just with norm atk) Full shorten combo : Resdam set, buffs on. Drain Thor hammer Thor hammer Zero ( no bander) Mana stock x2 * Low dps set Spellboost Dps set Bander imperial The * is when boss die with my end game team. Damage i do if full combo: 13m to 18m with this combo. Given the time though, it is comparable (you can hit that 18m at 100%). In 20 seconds they do 20m, in 20 seconds you do 18m. 90%… so you can fill dps role if needed. in 10s a good auto job already do 10m+ dmg just with norm atk) Old combo: Resdam set and buffs on. Bander dps set zero zero Resdam set Mp charge x1 Bander dps set zero zero * Boss die during this last combo, during bander or zero. Damage i do during combo : 3m to 4m. This was your max potential. In 10 seconds they hit 10m, in 10 seconds you hit 4m. 40%. Are your friends not on? Guess you can’t play your hw even if you wanted to. Admittedly the new system might be worst for “quick burst dps” for the reasons that you say, but they’re negated almost entirely by the fact that you can set up the combo outside of combat if you’re soloing, and if your in party where your dps wasn’t needed… well… like I said. There’s tradeoffs between classes. Remember, hw is much faster at mob farming than many other classes. They also have other support in battle. It’s all a game But you have to remember, maybe content is easier now, but in the future this almost certainly will not be the case. Harder bosses in Iruna mean more HP which means more opportunity for “long burst dps”. Again it’s about comparable and not exact pairing. Otherwise things would be boring. But at the end of the day, before, the damage was at half what they could do. Now the combo takes twice as long but the damage is consistent with what other classes can do. It’s a similar problem but now hw are in an objectively better situation when they have to play as a main dps and not just support.
|
|
|
Post by ishayel on May 3, 2022 14:58:41 GMT
Cast spd don't change cast delay buy have 1500 cast spd without multicast. Got skill delay capped.
Skills have a min cast spd, and they have fixed skill animation and minimum skill delay. Thor hammer have no cast time or near. Zero have no cast time or near. Bander cast time min is near 1s.
Just a combo that requires 20s if any trouble occurs ( this never happens on boss kill) when avg boss lifetime is 15s is useless.
Hw is slowed on mob farm by mob spawn, that makes some jobs farm faster and safier because lack of mobs ( most od the time you kill 1-2 mob per earthquake.) Hw only can compete for this for avg hp mobs, if you don't one shoot, some jobs better. For low hp mobs, some jobs do this job better as well. I don't use hw to farm most of the mobs, too boring bexause recoil, or too slow.
In 20s you do 300-400k because a skill that occurs when boss dead do 0.
|
|
|
Post by Owe on May 3, 2022 16:05:26 GMT
Exactly, no one’s disputing this. But the fact remains, you have the opportunity to play the game properly now. Now the class is arguably worse at being dps than other classes. Not factually worst. The class is arguably worse at farming mobs, not factually. It is a more balanced game now.
Before, with the dps you were soloing, you would take twice as long solo to kill a boss than other classes because the max potential of your dps was in half. Now it takes twice as long to do similar damage to other classes. In terms of the content out right now, individually, hw are in the same spot as they were before the new skills. To be honest they’re in a better position, because now they get buffs for going through their combo (it’s not just hope your damage kills before you’re killed, there’s actual interaction when you’re playing the game) or they can set up the combo outside the room and skip half or more of the fight all together. These long boss runs are balanced by the fact that 1 click for you is literally 3 clicks for many other classes in other scenarios. Yes spawn times are “slow” but there are still ways to play around that if you know how. Trade offs.
However the new skills aren’t made just for old content. They’re made to be able to introduce new content into the game. There’s no necessity to release skills if the player base can handle the current content. It’s actually opposite of what Asobimo would want (they want people playing Iruna as long as possible. Making its faster to kill and collect things for no reason is detrimental to that goal). So we know harder content is coming. Again, harder bosses in Iruna mean more HP. Which means that we know for a FACT that bosses with higher HP is coming. 10 second runs may be normal now, but after all new skills come out, I wouldn’t be surprised to see bosses with double to triple the hp that we see now, because the power level of the classes are higher. That’s all that it takes for these skills to be exponentially better than the old skills. All it takes is the devs releasing content to be played with the new skills.
0 damage if the boss is already dead? If you’re sure for sure you’re doing all you can to reduce the cast speed, then no you don’t have an opportunity to be the dps with your friends when they farm the bosses they are right now. Again trade offs between classes, things have always been this way. But there will always be a harder boss. I thought that was the point of the game. Now you’re not going to be left in the dust when the harder boss shows it’s face.
I can go on and on, but honestly I’m tired 😂 You’re complaining that you can’t do damage because your friends are strong right now. Before these skills came out, people were complaining because their class was unquestionably worse than every other class at doing their job. As much as I want Asobimo to make necromancer a melee class, my desires don’t reflect the whole community’s. I don’t mean to generalize, but I can’t imagine most of the community wanting to do auxiliary damage for a team that doesn’t need their damage anyway in place of actually having the capacity to damage similar to what other classes can.
|
|
|
Post by blackghost on May 3, 2022 16:15:17 GMT
I play iruna from start. Got like 50 differents sets, and tested + think them all. All hw cast time and delay have min cast time, even if you get very high cast spd, but with multicast, dmg continue to lower even if you reach min cadt time. Even with enough cast time to reach this min cast time, you still too slow, dps is too low, and only imperial burst do some damage. You will tell, because no minst ? Other players i play, if you add a minst it's not 10s run but 5s run ( and speaking about ch 6 bosses) . Just stop to find excuses, hw is weak and last up just definitively kill the job. Aside the combo beeing too long, you need memorize where you are in combo, but manage bosse as well. They poison, paralyze, 0 mp, 1 hp, drains mp, etc that slow even you more. Battle is not luna, i don't care about luna, but any ch6 bosse in team with friends. Ok you can do 10m+ burst after 10s, but friends i play with do 1m+ per auto atk lel, or with sin half boss hp after sicarius and do 2m backstab after... Compare hw mechanics with other dps jobs and mechanic is not usable and outdated. Just time you cast imperial with min cast time, they do more than your poor 10m dmg that will never lend Then quit the class and play assassin? Literally all youve ever done is complain about the class. Demonstrated you really don't fundementally understand how to play it while claiming youve played it for years. And compared it to classes that obviously have better dmg in the first 6 sec of the fight. No one here has ever tried claiming new Hw is op. No one. We've simply told you it is now comparable to actual classes. Which you refute with poorly made and researched videos. For the first week you didnt even understand the Bander changes. As an actual Hw with extensive investment into the class i can flat out tell you, youre incorrect. Zero never did more dps than new Hw skills. If you have issues using them, that is a player related issue and not one with the class itself. Seriously, do the actual Hw community a favor and go play assassin. Getting irritated with the misinformed, poorly geared players doomspeaking actual progress being made in the game. nah tell him to play as paladin or adventurer since he likes to complain about classes.
|
|
|
Post by blackghost on May 3, 2022 20:17:18 GMT
On completely unrelated news, I spammed holy thrust 3 times on Alan (had 1/5 of his hp) with the new passive skill and only used 1/4 of my mp. 500k per hit too. Hella chonk defenses to go with it. I havent even tested Order of Pain.
Slaying ye dark beasts and gods. A steady fort night's earning. No controversy in mine lane. I hath not shortest of thick revita. Mine skills knoweth no problem. Mine armor knoweth no weakness. Mine stats hath been well allocated and exp in abundance. I liveth mine best game gentlemen.
|
|