tasm
Member
Dead bones for sale... ~
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Post by tasm on May 28, 2014 0:20:26 GMT
I haven't had max VIT yet but I believe I would have around 18-20k HP at my level(202) with max VIT and Magic Barrier 3. I'm sitting at 10k HP with 100 VIT. If you were going to use Lebenglanz you would probably use all HP 20s so you would have a good bit more than that. You would probably wanna keep using DPR, but use Miwi Hat/Wind Up Key/Stier as your additional, and use reduce bangle. So they would probably end up with around 35k HP. So it would probably only hit about 4-6k. Basically the damage would be pretty crappy but it would be a pure tank build. It would take a LOT of stat points though. Max VIT, 135 AGI, 70ish DEX, and 200+ INT probably. At the current level cap it could be pulled off. INT would basically be the last priority. The problem would be leveling since its a pure tank and Enchanters don't have a way to AOE tank. Agi last priority
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Senpai
Community Contributor
meme ni naritai
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Post by Senpai on May 28, 2014 0:32:06 GMT
the ideal lebenglanz build as from what i've experienced is int=vit=crt,
this build gives you def, mdef, crit rate without relying on equipments. which allows you to focus on full on hp+% gear.
ideal gear atm would be lebenglanz with hp+20% and hp/vit ability/saltus up/shiro up/dpr up with hp ability slotted with hp+20%/idealsol with again vit/hp ability and hp+20%/knight gaunt with hp ability and hp+20%
if you wanna be a badass you can use dpr up for the counter. saltus up for the hp+% shiro up for the item recovery+20% (it's godlike when you're using onigiri with 50k+ hp)
if you can get autoskill lv5 star abilities, you're godlike.
i'm currently doing lebenglanz build with my own style, vit/140 agi/crt, using lebenglanz, shiroito upg, edel hood and myth loop all with hp+20% my average hp is 40k and i hit up to 12k additional hits at max hp.
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Post by ManaKhe on May 28, 2014 1:09:22 GMT
I haven't had max VIT yet but I believe I would have around 18-20k HP at my level(202) with max VIT and Magic Barrier 3. I'm sitting at 10k HP with 100 VIT. If you were going to use Lebenglanz you would probably use all HP 20s so you would have a good bit more than that. You would probably wanna keep using DPR, but use Miwi Hat/Wind Up Key/Stier as your additional, and use reduce bangle. So they would probably end up with around 35k HP. So it would probably only hit about 4-6k. Basically the damage would be pretty crappy but it would be a pure tank build. It would take a LOT of stat points though. Max VIT, 135 AGI, 70ish DEX, and 200+ INT probably. At the current level cap it could be pulled off. INT would basically be the last priority. The problem would be leveling since its a pure tank and Enchanters don't have a way to AOE tank. Agi last priority AGI shouldn't be last priority in a Lebenglanz focused build. DEX and INT would have a smaller effect on DMG than AGI would. This build shouldn't even be attempted until higher levels anyways when you have the points to get 135 AGI. It's a tank build and until 160-180+ it wouldn't be able to tank enough bosses. AGI also helps with keeping hate, you absolutely can't rely on Provoke 1 entirely to keep hate. Provoke Auto may be necessary to keep hate but I don't know how much hate Lebenglanz autoskill gets.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 28, 2014 2:33:35 GMT
the ideal lebenglanz build as from what i've experienced is int=vit=crt, this build gives you def, mdef, crit rate without relying on equipments. which allows you to focus on full on hp+% gear. ideal gear atm would be lebenglanz with hp+20% and hp/vit ability/saltus up/shiro up/dpr up with hp ability slotted with hp+20%/idealsol with again vit/hp ability and hp+20%/knight gaunt with hp ability and hp+20% if you wanna be a badass you can use dpr up for the counter. saltus up for the hp+% shiro up for the item recovery+20% (it's godlike when you're using onigiri with 50k+ hp) if you can get autoskill lv5 star abilities, you're godlike. i'm currently doing lebenglanz build with my own style, vit/140 agi/crt, using lebenglanz, shiroito upg, edel hood and myth loop all with hp+20% my average hp is 40k and i hit up to 12k additional hits at max hp. I would think leben is just an alternate weapon for when you use HP+. You'd get far more DPS with other gear. Honestly, I think you'd give off more DPS with any other weapon if you built it with CRT even with HP gear. 90% ATK reduction is not a small thing. You'd probably have around 200-ish ATK which really doesn't do much even with CRT.
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Senpai
Community Contributor
meme ni naritai
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Post by Senpai on May 28, 2014 2:39:57 GMT
the ideal lebenglanz build as from what i've experienced is int=vit=crt, this build gives you def, mdef, crit rate without relying on equipments. which allows you to focus on full on hp+% gear. ideal gear atm would be lebenglanz with hp+20% and hp/vit ability/saltus up/shiro up/dpr up with hp ability slotted with hp+20%/idealsol with again vit/hp ability and hp+20%/knight gaunt with hp ability and hp+20% if you wanna be a badass you can use dpr up for the counter. saltus up for the hp+% shiro up for the item recovery+20% (it's godlike when you're using onigiri with 50k+ hp) if you can get autoskill lv5 star abilities, you're godlike. i'm currently doing lebenglanz build with my own style, vit/140 agi/crt, using lebenglanz, shiroito upg, edel hood and myth loop all with hp+20% my average hp is 40k and i hit up to 12k additional hits at max hp. I would think leben is just an alternate weapon for when you use HP+. You'd get far more DPS with other gear. Honestly, I think you'd give off more DPS with any other weapon if you built it with CRT even with HP gear. 90% ATK reduction is not a small thing. You'd probably have around 200-ish ATK which really doesn't do much even with CRT. it mainly depends on luck, you already know that crit lowers atk on special swords, which cripples my attack, i have like 186 atk, but the additional hits make up for it. i'm sitll low lvl (152), so my hp isn't scaled to it's highest potential. lebenglanz hits on an average ratio of 1:3 (33% of additional hit) and at max hp the hit is 5-12k on average
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 28, 2014 3:40:14 GMT
I would think leben is just an alternate weapon for when you use HP+. You'd get far more DPS with other gear. Honestly, I think you'd give off more DPS with any other weapon if you built it with CRT even with HP gear. 90% ATK reduction is not a small thing. You'd probably have around 200-ish ATK which really doesn't do much even with CRT. it mainly depends on luck, you already know that crit lowers atk on special swords, which cripples my attack, i have like 186 atk, but the additional hits make up for it. i'm sitll low lvl (152), so my hp isn't scaled to it's highest potential. lebenglanz hits on an average ratio of 1:3 (33% of additional hit) and at max hp the hit is 5-12k on average I've used special sword on my VIT glad and although it gets crippled by CRT, there isn't really any alternative weapon that gives ATK. Assuming your build is AGI140/VIT140/CRT180, your special sword will still give you 100ATK more. If you have Katz up+9 and some DPS xtal/gears, you would probably land at around 900-1000+ATK right now which will probably give you 2.5-3k single crit and 3.5k to 5k double crits at a good consistency. 5k to 12k is 8.5k in average, with a ratio of 1:3 is 8.5/3 = 2.8k dmg that deterioates because you will most likely cannot be 100% HP all the time. If you were built a berserker maxVIT/CRT there will be no question in DPS superiority because you will be doing 4k single 6k+ double quite easily and you don't even need to wear HP gear. This is the reason why I couldn't make Leben work. I lose so much DPS that it doesn't make sense to me.
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Senpai
Community Contributor
meme ni naritai
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Post by Senpai on May 28, 2014 12:29:22 GMT
it mainly depends on luck, you already know that crit lowers atk on special swords, which cripples my attack, i have like 186 atk, but the additional hits make up for it. i'm sitll low lvl (152), so my hp isn't scaled to it's highest potential. lebenglanz hits on an average ratio of 1:3 (33% of additional hit) and at max hp the hit is 5-12k on average I've used special sword on my VIT glad and although it gets crippled by CRT, there isn't really any alternative weapon that gives ATK. Assuming your build is AGI140/VIT140/CRT180, your special sword will still give you 100ATK more. If you have Katz up+9 and some DPS xtal/gears, you would probably land at around 900-1000+ATK right now which will probably give you 2.5-3k single crit and 3.5k to 5k double crits at a good consistency. 5k to 12k is 8.5k in average, with a ratio of 1:3 is 8.5/3 = 2.8k dmg that deterioates because you will most likely cannot be 100% HP all the time. If you were built a berserker maxVIT/CRT there will be no question in DPS superiority because you will be doing 4k single 6k+ double quite easily and you don't even need to wear HP gear. This is the reason why I couldn't make Leben work. I lose so much DPS that it doesn't make sense to me. this is where galdi differs from pally, glad has naturally higher atk, has warcry 3-4, has berserk 2, double attack 4. my atk with katz is around 868, my crit is only 70 for now. my normal attacks do 900 dmg, my crits do 1.3k, my double attacks do 1.6-1,9 the only thing that makes it worth using katz on at the moment is mobs with dark element using gloria.
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tasm
Member
Dead bones for sale... ~
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Post by tasm on May 28, 2014 12:48:20 GMT
AGI shouldn't be last priority in a Lebenglanz focused build. DEX and INT would have a smaller effect on DMG than AGI would. This build shouldn't even be attempted until higher levels anyways when you have the points to get 135 AGI. It's a tank build and until 160-180+ it wouldn't be able to tank enough bosses. AGI also helps with keeping hate, you absolutely can't rely on Provoke 1 entirely to keep hate. Provoke Auto may be necessary to keep hate but I don't know how much hate Lebenglanz autoskill gets. I disagree. I carried an exactly similar build until level 186. Stats 256int/256vit/rest agi. I didn't need dex nor did I need agi. Slower aspd is covered by gear, easily. This kind of tank build is relying on inefficient means by which to deal dmg anyways. Dmg coming from counteratk xtals if one has any... The leben has a fixed trigger rate which is probably decent. That means 2-6k (or 3-9k depend on your equip sacrifice for hp) dmg every few hits. Versus a true dps build that hits 4-6k every single hit. So, counting on the leben to dps is silly for an enchanter. Even sillier for an enchanter to consider utilizing it. With autoskill -10%, the only skill that's triggering is your lebenglaz's additional hit. Magic additionals barely going to trigger, weapon skills becomes even more inefficient. Ontop of of that you're losing such a huge amount of dps compared to a dps build just to see an occassional big number. Moreover, since it's a vit reliant build, you take hits. Taking dmg = recasting stoneskin = using mp = mp recharge = having to continually drain. Having low dex makes drain take longest cast, not using a magic weapon makes it take longer... All of this is dps lost. Even if leben is getting you a bigger number, you're losing dps. Edit: The logic is this... (Assuming leben hits for maximum dmg each time and the dps is hitting for her lowest dmg every hit) player has 35khp, hp 20% xtals . player b is dps 4k-6k crt. player hits 11.5k every 3 hits (but to lean it in lebens favor, I'm making it every 2) ... So player now hits 23k every 4 hits. player b hits 8k every 2 hits. in 4 hits player b hits 16k. So in the unrealistic example, leben barely wins. Now, if I were to give even a slightly realistic example, leben would be far below in dps terms. I didn't even factor the -10% autoskills effect to dps. Nor did I factor the lost time from skill recasts due to a VIT based build... Or the dmg loss between hp 20% and matk% xtals, or the lost additional dmg, the losses becaue of equipment differences between the two builds, etc....
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Post by ManaKhe on May 28, 2014 17:38:55 GMT
AGI shouldn't be last priority in a Lebenglanz focused build. DEX and INT would have a smaller effect on DMG than AGI would. This build shouldn't even be attempted until higher levels anyways when you have the points to get 135 AGI. It's a tank build and until 160-180+ it wouldn't be able to tank enough bosses. AGI also helps with keeping hate, you absolutely can't rely on Provoke 1 entirely to keep hate. Provoke Auto may be necessary to keep hate but I don't know how much hate Lebenglanz autoskill gets. I disagree. I carried an exactly similar build until level 186. Stats 256int/256vit/rest agi. I didn't need dex nor did I need agi. Slower aspd is covered by gear, easily. This kind of tank build is relying on inefficient means by which to deal dmg anyways. Dmg coming from counteratk xtals if one has any... The leben has a fixed trigger rate which is probably decent. That means 2-6k (or 3-9k depend on your equip sacrifice for hp) dmg every few hits. Versus a true dps build that hits 4-6k every single hit. So, counting on the leben to dps is silly for an enchanter. Even sillier for an enchanter to consider utilizing it. With autoskill -10%, the only skill that's triggering is your lebenglaz's additional hit. Magic additionals barely going to trigger, weapon skills becomes even more inefficient. Ontop of of that you're losing such a huge amount of dps compared to a dps build just to see an occassional big number. Moreover, since it's a vit reliant build, you take hits. Taking dmg = recasting stoneskin = using mp = mp recharge = having to continually drain. Having low dex makes drain take longest cast, not using a magic weapon makes it take longer... All of this is dps lost. Even if leben is getting you a bigger number, you're losing dps. Edit: The logic is this... (Assuming leben hits for maximum dmg each time and the dps is hitting for her lowest dmg every hit) player has 35khp, hp 20% xtals . player b is dps 4k-6k crt. player hits 11.5k every 3 hits (but to lean it in lebens favor, I'm making it every 2) ... So player now hits 23k every 4 hits. player b hits 8k every 2 hits. in 4 hits player b hits 16k. So in the unrealistic example, leben barely wins. Now, if I were to give even a slightly realistic example, leben would be far below in dps terms. I didn't even factor the -10% autoskills effect to dps. Nor did I factor the lost time from skill recasts due to a VIT based build... Or the dmg loss between hp 20% and matk% xtals, or the lost additional dmg, the losses becaue of equipment differences between the two builds, etc.... AGI is to help keep hate more rather than to do more damage. It may not even keep hate effectively anyways; I haven't tried Lebenglanz in a tank situation so I don't know how well it does. The whole purpose of a Lebenglanz Enchanter would be to tank and you can not rely on Provoke 1 spam at all. There is a 0% chance that would work, Provoke 4 spam on Paladins with hate rise gear barely even works. So that would require Lebenglanz autoskill and Provoke Auto to keep hate, which would require more AGI. If it can't keep hate well at all then the whole build is kind of pointless because it will be very bad at DPS and will take a long time to solo bosses. Enchanters solo a lot of bosses rather slowly anyways though.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 29, 2014 2:33:31 GMT
I've used special sword on my VIT glad and although it gets crippled by CRT, there isn't really any alternative weapon that gives ATK. Assuming your build is AGI140/VIT140/CRT180, your special sword will still give you 100ATK more. If you have Katz up+9 and some DPS xtal/gears, you would probably land at around 900-1000+ATK right now which will probably give you 2.5-3k single crit and 3.5k to 5k double crits at a good consistency. 5k to 12k is 8.5k in average, with a ratio of 1:3 is 8.5/3 = 2.8k dmg that deterioates because you will most likely cannot be 100% HP all the time. If you were built a berserker maxVIT/CRT there will be no question in DPS superiority because you will be doing 4k single 6k+ double quite easily and you don't even need to wear HP gear. This is the reason why I couldn't make Leben work. I lose so much DPS that it doesn't make sense to me. this is where galdi differs from pally, glad has naturally higher atk, has warcry 3-4, has berserk 2, double attack 4. my atk with katz is around 868, my crit is only 70 for now. my normal attacks do 900 dmg, my crits do 1.3k, my double attacks do 1.6-1,9 the only thing that makes it worth using katz on at the moment is mobs with dark element using gloria. Agree, glad has better ATK skills. However, I based my calcs on warcry 2 and double atk 3, but I failed in my assumption that you had 180+CRT, which is 2.4x multiplier versus your actual 70CRT that is 1.85x multiplier which is a significant difference. With the right build and gear, I'm pretty sure I can build a Pally with 4k single on normal mobs using a Katz. Also, could you check again on your normal attack of 900 with single of 1.3k, this looks like a damage of a 1 CRT stat because its multiplier is only 1.5x. You should be hitting 1.6k with your 900 normal with 70CRT, per my math.
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Senpai
Community Contributor
meme ni naritai
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Post by Senpai on May 29, 2014 2:37:56 GMT
this is where galdi differs from pally, glad has naturally higher atk, has warcry 3-4, has berserk 2, double attack 4. my atk with katz is around 868, my crit is only 70 for now. my normal attacks do 900 dmg, my crits do 1.3k, my double attacks do 1.6-1,9 the only thing that makes it worth using katz on at the moment is mobs with dark element using gloria. Agree, glad has better ATK skills. However, I based my calcs on warcry 2 and double atk 3, but I failed in my assumption that you had 180+CRT, which is 2.4x multiplier versus your actual 70CRT that is 1.85x multiplier which is a significant difference. With the right build and gear, I'm pretty sure I can build a Pally with 4k single on normal mobs using a Katz. Also, could you check again on your normal attack of 900 with single of 1.3k, this looks like a damage of a 1 CRT stat because its multiplier is only 1.5x. You should be hitting 1.6k with your 900 normal with 70CRT, per my math. 867 attack 76 crit atm, 770- normal hits, 1.2k normal double attacks, 1.45k crits and i assume 1.9k double crit attack. (this is on totem, i assume that my 900 damage and 1.3k were on different mobs considering the defence, sorry for the confusion this has caused.)
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 29, 2014 3:12:13 GMT
Agree, glad has better ATK skills. However, I based my calcs on warcry 2 and double atk 3, but I failed in my assumption that you had 180+CRT, which is 2.4x multiplier versus your actual 70CRT that is 1.85x multiplier which is a significant difference. With the right build and gear, I'm pretty sure I can build a Pally with 4k single on normal mobs using a Katz. Also, could you check again on your normal attack of 900 with single of 1.3k, this looks like a damage of a 1 CRT stat because its multiplier is only 1.5x. You should be hitting 1.6k with your 900 normal with 70CRT, per my math. 867 attack 76 crit atm, 770- normal hits, 1.2k normal double attacks, 1.45k crits and i assume 1.9k double crit attack. (this is on totem, i assume that my 900 damage and 1.3k were on different mobs considering the defence, sorry for the confusion this has caused.) Yeah, 770 normal 1.2k double 1.45 single crit sounds right. Thanks for clarifying. You will hit 2.3k+ double (not 1.9k)
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Senpai
Community Contributor
meme ni naritai
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Post by Senpai on May 29, 2014 3:14:57 GMT
867 attack 76 crit atm, 770- normal hits, 1.2k normal double attacks, 1.45k crits and i assume 1.9k double crit attack. (this is on totem, i assume that my 900 damage and 1.3k were on different mobs considering the defence, sorry for the confusion this has caused.) Yeah, 770 normal 1.2k double 1.45 single crit sounds right. Thanks for clarifying. You will hit 2.3k+ double (not 1.9k) did a test on totem, hit 2k (989x2) double crit attack
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on May 29, 2014 3:34:34 GMT
Yeah, 770 normal 1.2k double 1.45 single crit sounds right. Thanks for clarifying. You will hit 2.3k+ double (not 1.9k) did a test on totem, hit 2k (989x2) double crit attack Double attack 3 is +60% damage so I don't know how you landed with that. Crit damage is normal dmg x (1.5 + CRT/200 + gear/xtal) So far: 770 + 60% = 1.232 (so 1.2k normal double attack is true) 770 x (1.5 + 76/200 + 0) = 1447 (so 1.45 single crit is true) so supposedly: 1.232 x (1.5 + 76/200+ 0) = 2316 OR 770 x (1.5 +76/200 + 0) + 60% = 2316 I assume you didn't warcry because it supposedly adds 12% to ATK. This will make you land at 2k double CRT without warcry.
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mokie
Community Contributor
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Post by mokie on Mar 29, 2015 22:19:40 GMT
I think Ill start playing this build for fun. VIT>INT>AGI(90) Im not decide for forth stat yet. Let me play it first. lol I plan to use Tech 5, 4, and 3 with AI crystal 3 red 2 blue to get 95% cri rate. All my equipment will be focused on +maxHP%.
This build might not be tanky nor super good at dps, but it is perfect for lazy player like me. I don't have to use much revita because I won't use Guardian. Also, all of my mp will be used just for healing myself for high damage output.
Lazy build for lazy player. lol
Edited: Sorry for bump this old threat, but it is better to make a new one.
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