|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 4:44:08 GMT
I know its been kinda bitched to death but id like to get a real honest discussion going if i can.
Yes weve all had the whole "i got five star fortune but frog if i can drop an extal or gear!"
What i havent noticed is anyone trying to sit down and figure out how the whole drop rate thing works.
So what im going to do is look at it from a programmers standpoint (done my share of that) fuzzy logic, and use my limited math skills and copious amounts of mr ethanol to try figure it out. Hopefully i get some of it right and it just needs some fiddly bits to make it work.
What im looking for is discussion to try hammer it down.
What we know:
1) there are three types of drops
1a) common
1b) uncommon
1c) rare
There are two established drop settings even if iruna likes to screw around with namesakes.
2a) drop rate
2b) rare drop rate
(Books and currone and jar confirm this, two seperate drop equations)
Taking just drop and rare drop as fact. We can for a fact, mesh common and uncommon into the non-rare catagory. (How? They dont flash rare)
Now. Programming if u boil it down in the any way shape or form is simple (the fiddly bits are knowing how to string multiple commands along in a single line) and boils down to this:
If this = that, do this, else do this other thing over here if this =that else do this instead ect Ect et al ad nausium. (When programmers speak thats called a "string")
Big thing to remember is this: if this happens do this else dont do that.
In the case of loot. Im betting the programmers use a random varience. (This is like the lotto. One in a million this number appears). This is sorta proven by some of the drop rates listed. Not really substantiated (proven) but eh. Fiddly bits.
Basically. To get said rare when you kill a boss, in a big hat are 10,000 numbers. Pick one out. Get the right number u get a rare. Get it wrong. Try again. Better luck next time.
Heres where math comes in... Sorta. Ill continue on page two.
|
|
|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 5:00:00 GMT
Now if im wanting to be a money sucking... No thats not nice. If i want to fool the sheeple into buying and using books. Im gonna split them. In four ways. (Might be 3. Cant remember) like iruna does.
1a) drop rate +x amount
1b) drop rate +% amount
1c) rare drop rate x amount
1d) rare drop rate % amount
Now what i mentioned with coefficients i might be wrong on the proper word but what im going to use isntwo examples to try explain it before i try fiddling with math.
Most people know when using crit, for every 3 points added you gain 1% crit chance. So at 30 crt pts invested ur 10% 60 20% ect 210 pts ur 70% chance to pop a crit
Building on that, programmers are a sadistic bunch. If you toss on say a throwing knife at face value it adds +25 crt. Roughly what? 9.3% more crit? So if ur at 70% chance throw that on ur 79.3% chance to crit now. Make sense?
We know this because the base coefficient everyone has to crit no matter whether they have 1 crt or 255 crt. Are a wiz or an assassin is 10%
You start with this. You always have a 10% chance to crit. Always. No matter what. Always.
Heres where math comes in. Because programmers are evil, if you dont boost that base crit, no amount of adding %crit will really dent your chances of critting. Thats why people use the if ur crit or any stat heavy use % else use +
100% of 10% puts ya at 20%. Congrats. Ur still not really critting. Its why paladins go zomg huge hp using hp20% but when u use it ur like wtf my iron armor gives more hp.
Same deal with drops.
Continuing page 3.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 5:02:11 GMT
my guess is:
book rate = 2; assuming a book with drop rate + 2
rare_drop = 0; assuming you are the worst player with 0 rare drop rate
new_value = rare_drop + book_rate;
item_drop_rate = 100; rarity of an item say 1/100
drop_rate = rand (0 , &new_value); rand will generate random number
if (drop_rate == 1 || drop_rate == 2) if the random number falls in this range, execute the if statement.
drop_the_item
else
ha_ha_kill_more_mobs_you_minions
of course this wont run because its just a form of simple pseudo code. not the program code itself. dont even bother copying this to a compiler.
|
|
|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 5:16:41 GMT
Now. Of course because as the game evolves Im going to invent content geared towards awesome boss lewts and storylines! Im not really gonna futz with the common uncommon drop rates on the bazilllion mobs we use to fill the maps we make u run horrid gauntlets through except to give you something to go crazy over. Remember naga xp? Ghost lanterns? Mega xp amd ent hp20? Anyone needing those dam bent screws after that damn decepticon altadora? That kinda thing.
So we modify the random variable for uncommon drops.
You old school programmers from gw and q basic will love this: set $mooth1 %mooth1 fluffy fur
Basically i told the game to say if a mooth is attacked. I saved a fluffy fur. Of course the programming is way way more indepth but what ill try do for you is idiots guide ya.
If the mooth dies. I now run a random number selection based on all those "set" commands. Each time you randomly select the apropriate number (it can be any range. 1-10, 1-1million) you get a drop. This is why sometimes you get absolutly nothing and other times you drop everything but a rare outta that mofo.
In addition if you hit that magic number, it kicks into high gear and gives you a chance at the rare said mob or boss holds.
So lets put it in bullet point:
Said boss lets take finstern. (Off the top of my head. Farmed him last)
He drops :
Dpr
Dragon eye
And some uncommon thing
Now this gives us four things. Because dpr comes slot and ns
So ima say. When u kill him. Give u a 1-10 chance to get his reg drop. 1-1000 chance at the dragon eye. And if u happen to roll a 666 outta the hat a shot at a 1-10000 chance of a dpr. And if u hit the dpr another 1-10000 chance on if its slot
Because programmers are sadistic twisted bunches.
How does tickets fortune books blind stupid luck play in?
Next page
|
|
|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 5:33:59 GMT
Kinda on the track syrien. Thing is ive only dealt with how the game works for assigning drops. Think of it loke being at the carnival.
You shoot the duck. You get a free shot. Shoot it in the head u shoot the bird for a better prize otherwise u shoot ducks some more. U miss game over. And sorry. Only one prize per ducky kill. Not per 99 ducky kills. Now pop the birdy in the eye for a shot at the big pink elephant. Great. Now pop this stupid mouse through the head moving twice as fast for a shot at the elephant with lights on it. Miss and you get nothing.
Thats how programming works. Programmers are sadistic.
So how does the + and % and rare and non rare and fortune work in?
Well. Ive explained how % works. If youre base 10% crit (thats no crit invested) adding 100% crit does nothing. Well it does. Just not much. 100% of 10% is well. 10% congrats. 20% chance at that exelis. Assuming thats RARE DROP not Drop.
So. What do i do then womble? Everyone says curone and jar and some say jar sucks and use book and omg my head hurts.
Thats the fiddly bits we need to work out.
1) From what i can tell fortune affects normal drop. Not rare.
2)Jar of greed affects normal drop. Not rare
3)During your normal roll you have a chance to pop up to rare roll. Remember i said multiple items vs none.( Go smack roarmelia n tell me u cant drop wing dust book and xtal at once. Or drop nothing at all)
Obviously the best bet is a full currone with jar s currone. That isnt the point of the post
The point. Is whats our base on drop and rare drop so we can mix and match books with our sets to maximize the chances of getting what we want. Whats the combo?
Thus ends my rambling.
|
|
|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 5:36:43 GMT
Well also. Maybe itll help stop the xomg i got five star stupid game stuff. Specia knows were sick of murphy interfereing with that haha!
|
|
|
|
Post by godofafro on Aug 27, 2014 5:54:00 GMT
Jar of greed affects normal drop. Not rare I find all of these to be sensible, but why jog doesnt affect rares? Doesnt it contradicts on what it says on the item description? |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 5:56:14 GMT
i'm interested in this
Dpr
Dragon eye
And some uncommon thing
dragon eye is actually the uncommon. dark dragon fang is the normal drop.
|
|
|
|
Post by MiLiGRiTo on Aug 27, 2014 6:07:28 GMT
The problem is that the chances can be tweaked in a way that the rates may be affected differently.
Say drop rate is set to 50/100.
A) +50% drop will make it 75/100
B) +50 will make it 100/100
Now if it were set like 1000/2000
A) +50% = 1500/2000
B) +50 = 1050/2000
50/100 = 1000/2000 = 1/2 = 40/80 and etc. So we really wouldn't know which is better unless the drop settings are shown to us.
Running tests would involve a lot of books running for long periods of time and would be useless if the game operator changes settings regularly.
|
|
|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 6:18:27 GMT
i'm interested in this Dpr Dragon eye And some uncommon thing dragon eye is actually the uncommon. dark dragon fang is the normal drop. Thats the name. Haha I was pulling numbers for it. But to use it better. The fang is 1-10 The eye is 1-1000 The dpr catch the if statement ln rare The dpr s is catch a further if statement after u get the dpr ns Tickets gear fortune books grant you an if statement % chance to try reroll your original dice cast to get it. How id say: 10% base to reroll after killing finstetn for a dpr if u dont get the first time. Using reg drop ur still at 1-10000 chance. Using rare drop ur automatically kicked up to a say 1-1000 roll and ur % chance to double try on it is that base. Theoretically if ur using drop set and books itd look something like this: 1) roll for fang/eye secondary roll for rare chance 2) books tix gear ect give second chance at rare chance if fail on first attempt 3) fail the initial rare roll better luck next time 4) fail the secondary roll better luck next time 5) make ur rare roll and miss the rare. Better luck next time 6) make ur rare roll, make the roll. Roll for slot or ns. |
|
|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 6:19:58 GMT
The problem is that the chances can be tweaked in a way that the rates may be affected differently. Say drop rate is set to 50/100. A) +50% drop will make it 75/100 B) +50 will make it 100/100 Now if it were set like 1000/2000 A) +50% = 1500/2000 B) +50 = 1050/2000 50/100 = 1000/2000 = 1/2 = 40/80 and etc. So we really wouldn't know which is better unless the drop settings are shown to us. Running tests would involve a lot of books running for long periods of time and would be useless if the game operator changes settings regularly. Wrong. Remember adding +50 crt rate would only add about 15% chance. Not a full 50. Multiplicative. Not addative. Like the tknife for crit. Adds +25 crt rating. 3 crt rating per 1%. Not 25 overall. Edit and if thats against a 1:10000 thats a pitiful dent. Ots why u drop rose rings like no tomorrow ans cant drop a mgarb to save ur life some days. |
|
|
|
Post by MiLiGRiTo on Aug 27, 2014 6:24:15 GMT
The problem is that the chances can be tweaked in a way that the rates may be affected differently. Say drop rate is set to 50/100. A) +50% drop will make it 75/100 B) +50 will make it 100/100 Now if it were set like 1000/2000 A) +50% = 1500/2000 B) +50 = 1050/2000 50/100 = 1000/2000 = 1/2 = 40/80 and etc. So we really wouldn't know which is better unless the drop settings are shown to us. Running tests would involve a lot of books running for long periods of time and would be useless if the game operator changes settings regularly. Wrong. Remember adding +50 crt rate would only add about 15% chance. Not a full 50. Multiplicative. Not addative. Like the tknife for crit. Adds +25 crt rating. 3 crt rating per 1%. Not 25 overall. Dont confuse crit rate and drop rates. They have different rules. The drop rates bonuses were already explained by the developer. |
|
|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 6:27:13 GMT
Youre adding +25 drop rate books thinking if you have a 75% chance you hit 100%. It does not work like that.
It never has. It never will.
Youre also trying to suggest a pure hp20% woth tjings loke saltus miwi or uldas or santa xtals will hit 40k hp with a 1 point vit build vs a 256 point vit build.
10000000000000000% of 1% is still 1%
Thats where the coefficient comes in. Whats our base so we can figure out that balance between % and +. THATS what im asking.
|
|
|
|
Post by MiLiGRiTo on Aug 27, 2014 6:34:45 GMT
Youre adding +25 drop rate books thinking if you have a 75% chance you hit 100%. It does not work like that. It never has. It never will. Youre also trying to suggest a pure hp20% woth tjings loke saltus miwi or uldas or santa xtals will hit 40k hp with a 1 point vit build vs a 256 point vit build. 10000000000000000% of 1% is still 1% Thats where the coefficient comes in. Whats our base so we can figure out that balance between % and +. THATS what im asking. Your logic and math Is flawed. |
|
|
|
Post by womble on Aug 27, 2014 6:35:25 GMT
Youre adding +25 drop rate books thinking if you have a 75% chance you hit 100%. It does not work like that. It never has. It never will. Youre also trying to suggest a pure hp20% woth tjings loke saltus miwi or uldas or santa xtals will hit 40k hp with a 1 point vit build vs a 256 point vit build. 10000000000000000% of 1% is still 1% Thats where the coefficient comes in. Whats our base so we can figure out that balance between % and +. THATS what im asking. Your logic and math Is flawed. Explain then. Its easy to say as such |
|
