Eaysley
Community Contributor
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Aug 27, 2016 15:37:52 GMT
Is it just me or 2 to 3 DEF/ 3 to 5 ATK really have little to nothing difference in damage/resistance.
I don't quite understand the logic behind paying huge money for a small DEF/ATK difference.
Recently, someone declined to buy my KGS because they wanted D1 (1 defense). In my head : "boi u stuped. 1 def does nothing"
Maybe I'm wrong tho.
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skeewi
Member
Hate speech is best speech
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Post by skeewi on Aug 27, 2016 18:24:35 GMT
Mathematically speaking, for gear def, it's a pretty big difference depending on the amount of damage. Character def in the stat screen subtracts enemy attack, but the cumulative def stats on gear divides it.
So the difference between 10-11 is like, 11000/10=1100 and 11000/11= 1000
Well, 100 damage isn't a big difference, but people always want that extra edge.
In regards to attack stat on gear, that scales with level. But I have no idea how it scales.
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Yazmat
Community Contributor
Pally Lv351 | Alchy Lv318
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Post by Yazmat on Aug 27, 2016 20:04:57 GMT
Mathematically speaking, for gear def, it's a pretty big difference depending on the amount of damage. Character def in the stat screen subtracts enemy attack, but the cumulative def stats on gear divides it. So the difference between 10-11 is like, 11000/10=1100 and 11000/11= 1000 Well, 100 damage isn't a big difference, but people always want that extra edge. In regards to attack stat on gear, that scales with level. But I have no idea how it scales. Scales with refinement level you mean
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Namitsuki
Member
Loving the Island Stalls. Good bye Rokoko.
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Post by Namitsuki on Aug 27, 2016 20:07:21 GMT
If I'm not mistaken def on gear works like percentage. That is 1 def would make you take 1% less damage from the attack received.
It's not much individually, but when you look at the whole picture every percentage counts.
Unless you are a glass cannon, in that case it doesn't matter at all since most attacks will kill you anyway.
As for weapon's atks it's a bit more complicated. If the weapon isn't refined the difference is almost irrelevant. Since refining adds a multiplier to the weapon atk value, after refining the difference is a little bit bigger.
Then you also have to take into consideration the atk% modifier and the weapon's and enemies' elements... In the end it's a much more complicated equation, but yeah, it's worth it to get the highest atk you can afford if the weapon is good and will stay on your arsenal for quite a while
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skeewi
Member
Hate speech is best speech
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Post by skeewi on Aug 27, 2016 20:36:56 GMT
Mathematically speaking, for gear def, it's a pretty big difference depending on the amount of damage. Character def in the stat screen subtracts enemy attack, but the cumulative def stats on gear divides it. So the difference between 10-11 is like, 11000/10=1100 and 11000/11= 1000 Well, 100 damage isn't a big difference, but people always want that extra edge. In regards to attack stat on gear, that scales with level. But I have no idea how it scales. Scales with refinement level you mean. Doesn't it scale off both refinement level AND character level?
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Yazmat
Community Contributor
Pally Lv351 | Alchy Lv318
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Post by Yazmat on Aug 27, 2016 22:21:28 GMT
Scales with refinement level you mean. Doesn't it scale off both refinement level AND character level? First time I hear that theory... and I am pretty sure it doesn't
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Eaysley
Community Contributor
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Aug 27, 2016 22:29:00 GMT
If I'm not mistaken def on gear works like percentage. That is 1 def would make you take 1% less damage from the attack received. It's not much individually, but when you look at the whole picture every percentage counts. Unless you are a glass cannon, in that case it doesn't matter at all since most attacks will kill you anyway. As for weapon's atks it's a bit more complicated. If the weapon isn't refined the difference is almost irrelevant. Since refining adds a multiplier to the weapon atk value, after refining the difference is a little bit bigger. Then you also have to take into consideration the atk% modifier and the weapon's and enemies' elements... In the end it's a much more complicated equation, but yeah, it's worth it to get the highest atk you can afford if the weapon is good and will stay on your arsenal for quite a while How worth it is worth it tho? The damage difference is very insignificant in comparison to a huge increase in price afaik. Same with def and damage reduction. 1% per def? Maybe you're pertaining to refinement. Because if that's the case, my gladiator will have -1350% damage. XD Can someone post a comparison? I noticed this using Sword Tempest (Gladiator) and Paladin (Guardian). No change at all. Too bad I already sold my @max Transer (@175). It didn't have a noticable increase in damage from @162. Both +9 and no crystals.
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Yazmat
Community Contributor
Pally Lv351 | Alchy Lv318
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Post by Yazmat on Aug 27, 2016 23:09:52 GMT
If I'm not mistaken def on gear works like percentage. That is 1 def would make you take 1% less damage from the attack received. It's not much individually, but when you look at the whole picture every percentage counts. Unless you are a glass cannon, in that case it doesn't matter at all since most attacks will kill you anyway. As for weapon's atks it's a bit more complicated. If the weapon isn't refined the difference is almost irrelevant. Since refining adds a multiplier to the weapon atk value, after refining the difference is a little bit bigger. Then you also have to take into consideration the atk% modifier and the weapon's and enemies' elements... In the end it's a much more complicated equation, but yeah, it's worth it to get the highest atk you can afford if the weapon is good and will stay on your arsenal for quite a while How worth it is worth it tho? The damage difference is very insignificant in comparison to a huge increase in price afaik. Same with def and damage reduction. 1% per def? Maybe you're pertaining to refinement. Because if that's the case, my gladiator will have -1350% damage. XD Can someone post a comparison? I noticed this using Sword Tempest (Gladiator) and Paladin (Guardian). No change at all. Too bad I already sold my @max Transer (@175). It didn't have a noticable increase in damage from @162. Both +9 and no crystals. You need an atk build guardian to notice any difference in atk increase or decrease and wound transer is for hp builds (no idea about gladies)
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Post by lacs on Aug 27, 2016 23:46:42 GMT
Is it just me or 2 to 3 DEF/ 3 to 5 ATK really have little to nothing difference in damage/resistance. I don't quite understand the logic behind paying huge money for a small DEF/ATK difference. Recently, someone declined to buy my KGS because they wanted D1 (1 defense). In my head : "boi u stuped. 1 def does nothing" Maybe I'm wrong tho. I've been hunting myrica with def 3 on stalls, i got 4 with def 2, it does improve, every little bit matters
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Post by ManaKhe on Aug 27, 2016 23:52:50 GMT
If a DPS you can probably just ignore the small amount of ATK/DEF differences on gear completely unless you are a perfectionist as it really won't make too much of a difference. If you are a tank you may wanna pay attention to DEF some but it will still only make a small difference.
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Namitsuki
Member
Loving the Island Stalls. Good bye Rokoko.
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Post by Namitsuki on Aug 28, 2016 1:47:16 GMT
If I'm not mistaken def on gear works like percentage. That is 1 def would make you take 1% less damage from the attack received. It's not much individually, but when you look at the whole picture every percentage counts. Unless you are a glass cannon, in that case it doesn't matter at all since most attacks will kill you anyway. As for weapon's atks it's a bit more complicated. If the weapon isn't refined the difference is almost irrelevant. Since refining adds a multiplier to the weapon atk value, after refining the difference is a little bit bigger. Then you also have to take into consideration the atk% modifier and the weapon's and enemies' elements... In the end it's a much more complicated equation, but yeah, it's worth it to get the highest atk you can afford if the weapon is good and will stay on your arsenal for quite a while How worth it is worth it tho? The damage difference is very insignificant in comparison to a huge increase in price afaik. Same with def and damage reduction. 1% per def? Maybe you're pertaining to refinement. Because if that's the case, my gladiator will have -1350% damage. XD Can someone post a comparison? I noticed this using Sword Tempest (Gladiator) and Paladin (Guardian). No change at all. Too bad I already sold my @max Transer (@175). It didn't have a noticable increase in damage from @162. Both +9 and no crystals. The 1% per DEF only works for equipment DEF plus refinement. Your character defense goes into another part of the formula. Received Physical Damage Calculation = (Enemy ATK + Random Value (0 to about 20% of the Enemy ATK) - Own DEF) × [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] × (1 - Physical Resistance) [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] means every 1 def for equipment gives 0.01, or 1% less damage, after the damage calculation that uses your character's DEF, making equipment def basically the same thing as Physical Resistance. If I'm not mistaken you cant get much above 40~50 total equipment DEF (at least i dont remember any equipment with more than 20ish def). For ATK the calculation is more complex, like i said before: White Physical Damage = [ATK + Weapon ATK Value + Own Lv - Enemy Lv - Enemy DEF + (Random Numbers)] × (1 + Attribute Coefficient) + (Melee) I can never figure if your weapon's atk get calculated twice or not and in this case the equipment stats will be a bigger influence than the actual ATK number when the difference in ATK is small. That's to say that it's worth it to get the high ATK version only when it's not too way out of your budget and you will keep it for long and keep it upgraded whenever possible, since the difference is much smaller than in the DEF case. So in my opinion getting the highest ATK weapon is worth it if we are talking about an older but still relevant weapon, like Koda, Princely Rod and Priest Staff since they are easier to make and the price isnt all that high, making it a bit pointless to get the lower ATK versions unless your budget is really that small. When we are talking about newer weapons with sky high prices for high ATK and difficult strengthening process, i dont think it's worth it to buy the highest ATK. The price is too high for such a small difference.
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Post by lacs on Aug 28, 2016 1:59:34 GMT
the high increase in price vs the lowest difference on defense on equipment, why would you make an equipment +9 if it's already +8? it's just one defense, it shouldn't be worth spending 20 more orichalcums just for a +9, or is it? will it is, every little bit in equipment matters a lot, first of all, the chances of getting a higher defense /attack equipment when dropping em is lower, then, trying to get a max def or max atk gets even harder, those are so rare, mostly because trying to achieve a max atk or def on equipment is mostly because of someone strengthened it using production, try searching myrica on stalls and sort em by defense, just the first 5-10 are defense 1, the rest 30 or something are defense 0, there really really rare chances of finding one with defense 2, and i just haven't seen one with defense 3, the price increases because of how rare it is to get one, not because of how useful it is
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Eaysley
Community Contributor
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Aug 28, 2016 2:17:07 GMT
How worth it is worth it tho? The damage difference is very insignificant in comparison to a huge increase in price afaik. Same with def and damage reduction. 1% per def? Maybe you're pertaining to refinement. Because if that's the case, my gladiator will have -1350% damage. XD Can someone post a comparison? I noticed this using Sword Tempest (Gladiator) and Paladin (Guardian). No change at all. Too bad I already sold my @max Transer (@175). It didn't have a noticable increase in damage from @162. Both +9 and no crystals. You need an atk build guardian to notice any difference in atk increase or decrease and wound transer is for hp builds (no idea about gladies) I got 200 VIT and around 340 each STR and DEX There really is no significant difference as the random numbers make the tiny difference in attack unnoticable. I'll probs try it with a different weap of that's the case.
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Eaysley
Community Contributor
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Aug 28, 2016 2:23:21 GMT
the high increase in price vs the lowest difference on defense on equipment, why would you make an equipment +9 if it's already +8? it's just one defense, it shouldn't be worth spending 20 more orichalcums just for a +9, or is it? will it is, every little bit in equipment matters a lot, first of all, the chances of getting a higher defense /attack equipment when dropping em is lower, then, trying to get a max def or max atk gets even harder, those are so rare, mostly because trying to achieve a max atk or def on equipment is mostly because of someone strengthened it using production, try searching myrica on stalls and sort em by defense, just the first 5-10 are defense 1, the rest 30 or something are defense 0, there really really rare chances of finding one with defense 2, and i just haven't seen one with defense 3, the price increases because of how rare it is to get one, not because of how useful it is Refine values are completely different from DEF afaik. irunaonline.boards.net/thread/4/refining-guideWe're talking DEF here. Anyway, exactly! People just pay ridiculous amounts of money for insignificant damage reduction because of rarity and not its use. Seems dumb to me.
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Eaysley
Community Contributor
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Aug 28, 2016 2:26:10 GMT
How worth it is worth it tho? The damage difference is very insignificant in comparison to a huge increase in price afaik. Same with def and damage reduction. 1% per def? Maybe you're pertaining to refinement. Because if that's the case, my gladiator will have -1350% damage. XD Can someone post a comparison? I noticed this using Sword Tempest (Gladiator) and Paladin (Guardian). No change at all. Too bad I already sold my @max Transer (@175). It didn't have a noticable increase in damage from @162. Both +9 and no crystals. The 1% per DEF only works for equipment DEF plus refinement. Your character defense goes into another part of the formula. Received Physical Damage Calculation = (Enemy ATK + Random Value (0 to about 20% of the Enemy ATK) - Own DEF) × [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] × (1 - Physical Resistance) [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] means every 1 def for equipment gives 0.01, or 1% less damage, after the damage calculation that uses your character's DEF, making equipment def basically the same thing as Physical Resistance. If I'm not mistaken you cant get much above 40~50 total equipment DEF (at least i dont remember any equipment with more than 20ish def). For ATK the calculation is more complex, like i said before: White Physical Damage = [ATK + Weapon ATK Value + Own Lv - Enemy Lv - Enemy DEF + (Random Numbers)] × (1 + Attribute Coefficient) + (Melee) I can never figure if your weapon's atk get calculated twice or not and in this case the equipment stats will be a bigger influence than the actual ATK number when the difference in ATK is small. That's to say that it's worth it to get the high ATK version only when it's not too way out of your budget and you will keep it for long and keep it upgraded whenever possible, since the difference is much smaller than in the DEF case. So in my opinion getting the highest ATK weapon is worth it if we are talking about an older but still relevant weapon, like Koda, Princely Rod and Priest Staff since they are easier to make and the price isnt all that high, making it a bit pointless to get the lower ATK versions unless your budget is really that small. When we are talking about newer weapons with sky high prices for high ATK and difficult strengthening process, i dont think it's worth it to buy the highest ATK. The price is too high for such a small difference. Oh. I didn't know that base def is used the calculation. Hm. Maybe I gotta check the one on def some more. I honestly can't find a difference. It probably has a lot to do with the random numbers.
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