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Post by Mary on Apr 12, 2015 3:19:43 GMT
I will re-open with specific evidence, ty for responding for errors. I will look over. (I still believed agi is not necessary)
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Post by Tilt*Madara on Apr 12, 2015 7:25:45 GMT
Crt wont raise double atk or spellburst on a bishop
Bow/magic bow bishop would have lower everything compared to a staff/magic staff bishop
Your attacks might deal 5k each hit if your lucky and if they are critical. The attack intervals on a bow are slow and basically dps is destroyed.
Bow bishop has no true role in a party. Nobody would want one either especially if any staff bishop over lvl 140 is available.
Bishop is just one of those classes that wont work with a non throw/staff weapon, even with double hit. It just lowers everything you do just so that you can say "Im original and I use a bow"
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Post by Tilt*Madara on Apr 12, 2015 7:29:31 GMT
Also 90% of the areas that stats affect are wrong, such as max crt giving 85% crt rate, which it is at 90ish% and dex giving 1.5 matk per, when it is only .5, and int giving 2 matk when it gives 4 and a lot more.
I dont see why you will be using a bow if you plan on casting anyways.
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Post by Mary on Apr 12, 2015 15:58:55 GMT
Also 90% of the areas that stats affect are wrong, such as max crt giving 85% crt rate, which it is at 90ish% and dex giving 1.5 matk per, when it is only .5, and int giving 2 matk when it gives 4 and a lot more. I dont see why you will be using a bow if you plan on casting anyways. u said u use bow did u use with these stats or one of rods one. I am agree with u that making bow bishop is a bit useless. you said cri wont increase spell bust oh yes it will. If u use rita and idk other spell burst cri will support it and i am not sure about Double atk i just worte incase it happen. And using bow is just for fun and i would change my statement that bow bishop wont be much help in pt for healing, I just said they be helpful. only in tanker role not healer for other. they will mostly use their heal to heal them selves not other. i most like solo tanker build. |
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Post by Tilt*Madara on Apr 12, 2015 21:00:34 GMT
Also 90% of the areas that stats affect are wrong, such as max crt giving 85% crt rate, which it is at 90ish% and dex giving 1.5 matk per, when it is only .5, and int giving 2 matk when it gives 4 and a lot more. I dont see why you will be using a bow if you plan on casting anyways. u said u use bow did u use with these stats or one of rods one. I am agree with u that making bow bishop is a bit useless. you said cri wont increase spell bust oh yes it will. If u use rita and idk other spell burst cri will support it and i am not sure about Double atk i just worte incase it happen. And using bow is just for fun and i would change my statement that bow bishop wont be much help in pt for healing, I just said they be helpful. only in tanker role not healer for other. they will mostly use their heal to heal them selves not other. i most like solo tanker build. Bishops dont have the passive skill called "Spellburst" so crt wont affect spellburst rate on a bishop. Thats why CRT isnt used in any bishop builds. I never said I use a bow.and a tanker role bishop with a bow?? Most bows have -hate so it couldnt hold agro and it would heal itself less and res slower on itself unless your using vio or whatever other bow has the skill delay. Even then your going to be auto attacking. |
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Post by Mary on Apr 12, 2015 21:14:29 GMT
u said u use bow did u use with these stats or one of rods one. I am agree with u that making bow bishop is a bit useless. you said cri wont increase spell bust oh yes it will. If u use rita and idk other spell burst cri will support it and i am not sure about Double atk i just worte incase it happen. And using bow is just for fun and i would change my statement that bow bishop wont be much help in pt for healing, I just said they be helpful. only in tanker role not healer for other. they will mostly use their heal to heal them selves not other. i most like solo tanker build. Bishops dont have the passive skill called "Spellburst" so crt wont affect spellburst rate on a bishop. Thats why CRT isnt used in any bishop builds. I never said I use a bow.and a tanker role bishop with a bow?? Most bows have -hate so it couldnt hold agro and it would heal itself less and res slower on itself unless your using vio or whatever other bow has the skill delay. Even then your going to be auto attacking. So, what ur point? Do u think that bow bishops is completely useless? or u trying to say that critical doesnt matter so that why there no nerd for bow bishops? I nver said that bish have passive spellburt rate or whatever. But with cirtical rate or daege will be faster than rods and if u put Wol (i am not sure) it give double atk+ if u also put spell burst ability on it. then i can grantee that cri will be useful for bow bishop. If u stilll disagree with me, I will try to provide u some evidence ok. |
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Post by Tilt*Madara on Apr 12, 2015 21:31:25 GMT
Bishops dont have the passive skill called "Spellburst" so crt wont affect spellburst rate on a bishop. Thats why CRT isnt used in any bishop builds. I never said I use a bow.and a tanker role bishop with a bow?? Most bows have -hate so it couldnt hold agro and it would heal itself less and res slower on itself unless your using vio or whatever other bow has the skill delay. Even then your going to be auto attacking. So, what ur point? Do u think that bow bishops is completely useless? or u trying to say that critical doesnt matter so that why there no nerd for bow bishops? I nver said that bish have passive spellburt rate or whatever. But with cirtical rate or daege will be faster than rods and if u put Wol (i am not sure) it give double atk+ if u also put spell burst ability on it. then i can grantee that cri will be useful for bow bishop. If u stilll disagree with me, I will try to provide u some evidence ok. I mean, I do have a 270bish and a 258 high wizard that has the spellburst skill and Ive already tested the effects that crt/crt rate gear has on both for spellburst rates but alright test it out. Bow bishop is useless if a staff using bishop is around. If not then I guess the party has to take whatever it can get. Im confused too. You say that you will be casting, which is the only way spellburst will activate unless you have a magic attack chance on a weapon or something, then you say its useful for a bow when your build says that it will be using wol to attack, so it wont activate spellburst??? And do t get me wrong, Im not bashing the idea completely, im just saying that your perception of the way the skills work are way off. |
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Roxzen
Community Contributor 
Goodbye :) Thanks for the memories Iruna, the Forums was an awesome place!
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Post by Roxzen on Apr 12, 2015 21:36:33 GMT
Wol: "additional attack chance by attack" This build has no agi, autoskills procd by attack do not proc with skills unless its Dual Blow.
Crt does not help out with crt rate of spell burst with any class that isnt hwiz beacause they dont have spellburst passive. Even if you have gear with spell burst %, crt will not raise that. So crt will be useless.
Also from my experience crt rate does not help with Wol, Autoskill % will cause it to proc more often.
Bishop can already tank with Rods and Int Dex Vit build
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Post by Mary on Apr 12, 2015 22:01:20 GMT
So, what ur point? Do u think that bow bishops is completely useless? or u trying to say that critical doesnt matter so that why there no nerd for bow bishops? I nver said that bish have passive spellburt rate or whatever. But with cirtical rate or daege will be faster than rods and if u put Wol (i am not sure) it give double atk+ if u also put spell burst ability on it. then i can grantee that cri will be useful for bow bishop. If u stilll disagree with me, I will try to provide u some evidence ok. I mean, I do have a 270bish and a 258 high wizard that has the spellburst skill and Ive already tested the effects that crt/crt rate gear has on both for spellburst rates but alright test it out. Bow bishop is useless if a staff using bishop is around. If not then I guess the party has to take whatever it can get. Im confused too. You say that you will be casting, which is the only way spellburst will activate unless you have a magic attack chance on a weapon or something, then you say its useful for a bow when your build says that it will be using wol to Double attack, so it wont activate spellburst??? And do t get me wrong, Im not bashing the idea completely, im just saying that your perception of the way the skills work are way off. well, Ik that rod bishop is more useful and i am not planning to take the conversation about the diff betw rod/bow bishop. It is common sense that rod bishop is more wanted but the point i am trying to prove that bishop with bow is not totally inadequate.and u r mystifying me with spellburst now notice what u said alright. "casting, which is the only way spellburst " notice now u said casting is only way so will spell burst abiliy or in xtal will it acitvate? bishop have to cast doesnt matter with bish use. the thing that matter how and whom bsihop should cast. About the wol to activate spell brust no, early u ask me about double attack so thats i bring that up but wol has nothing to do with spell burst so dont need to get confuse on that part. for magic attack : {almost all the magic bows increase matk and also add too}
Seele bow up: ↑ magic power and attack, magic bow
Sorcerie : ↑ Matk and casp, magic bow
Indigo Bow: (Magic Bow. ASPD +10%, ATK-40%, Evasion -60%. Magic up by Lv. MATK +10% of INT>199.)
Indigo Bow II:ATK: 198-224(Magic Bow. ASPD +10%, ATK-35%, Evasion -50%, MaxHP +5%. Magic up by Lv. MATK +15% of INT>199. )
Migratale III: this is not magic bow but support dex int cri vi (DEX +6, Critical Damage +10%, MP Consumption -10%, Hate Growth Rate -10%. When attacking, chance of additional attack)
Malicia Bow: this is not magic bow but it increase cri damage so I like it
Amaterasu Okami: this is not magic bow but it support these stats (Melee +20% to neutral, Small MP recovery by attack, INT +4, Range +2, Critical Damage +5%)
and u bring up skills. I will give u details how they will work with bow .
U stilll have questions or concerns or u need prove or u need specific guide or u think iam completely wrong??
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Post by Mary on Apr 12, 2015 22:08:59 GMT
Roxzen , Wol is just for attack. i didnt say it will effect cri. I said exactly what it stats say. and u both said cri doesnt spell burst ok, fine i will look over i am maybe wrong. but why u think cri is USELESS. it simply took place for agi to cri.
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Roxzen
Community Contributor
Goodbye :) Thanks for the memories Iruna, the Forums was an awesome place!
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Post by Roxzen on Apr 12, 2015 22:19:13 GMT
Roxzen , Wol is just for attack. i didnt say it will effect cri. I said exactly what it stats say. and u both said cri doesnt spell burst ok, fine i will look over i am maybe wrong. but why u think cri is USELESS. it simply took place for agi to cri. Crt has like no place in the build. Look at your stat^ Int Dex Crt Vit Let me put this simply: 1. No agi = not max aspd, even if you had autoskill ai setup, you wouldn't reach max aspd. So autoattacking wouldnt make sense, even if you had high crts, casting your spells would out dps your auto attacks. 2. Bishop afaik has no spells that can crt, and even if they used spell burst% gear, crt will not raise the proc rate. 3. Using equipment/xtals with Magic Autoskills will benefit you more than crtical attacks alone since magic will deal much more. (This is if you get Dual Blow) 4. You said it yourself that the build will be focusing mainly on matk, why put wol? An xtal who's additional attack is procd by attacking, when you have no agi for aspd? |
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Post by Mary on Apr 12, 2015 22:44:50 GMT
Roxzen , Wol is just for attack. i didnt say it will effect cri. I said exactly what it stats say. and u both said cri doesnt spell burst ok, fine i will look over i am maybe wrong. but why u think cri is USELESS. it simply took place for agi to cri. Crt has like no place in the build. Look at your stat^ Int Dex Crt Vit, since crt doesnt help in spell burst proc, you have NO AGI, the build looks like a spell spam build to me, even if you get dual blow, using autoskill xtals and gear will get you higher dps than crtical attacks alone. Well, Using magic bows will have low eva but aspd will be so same. So answer this does bishop need eva more than matk? So they DON’T need agi. U r totally off the topic even rod bishop doesn’t have agi they use int dex vit *only sword bishop need it*. Agi not essential for bishops. If u place agi with cri then atk or damage will be low and bow bishop will be completely useless. I put critical becuz it support bows, if i put agi ,it will only help bishops in casting but bow bishop omg Idk how to explain , anyway I will give a simple example of other classes rod minstrel or etc, why would he choice rod if he know the nail is better? Lmt why, becuz there is other POSSIBLE stats for minstrel (just an example don’t fight me over minstrel now) so I was showing there are other stats that can be usefull at higher lvl , that all. |
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Post by Mary on Apr 12, 2015 22:49:45 GMT
Roxzen , Wol is just for attack. i didnt say it will effect cri. I said exactly what it stats say. and u both said cri doesnt spell burst ok, fine i will look over i am maybe wrong. but why u think cri is USELESS. it simply took place for agi to cri. Crt has like no place in the build. Look at your stat^ Int Dex Crt Vit Let me put this simply: 1. No agi = not max aspd, even if you had autoskill ai setup, you wouldn't reach max aspd. So autoattacking wouldnt make sense, even if you had high crts, casting your spells would out dps your auto attacks. (but still there will be 20% aspd)2. Bishop afaik has no spells that can crt, and even if they used spell burst% gear, crt will not raise the proc rate.( but bows does have stats that support cri)3. Using equipment/xtals with Magic Autoskills will benefit you more than crtical attacks alone since magic will deal much more. (This is if you get Dual Blow) (it will deal with both cri for physical and int dex Later vit for magic)4. You said it yourself that the build will be focusing mainly on matk, why put wol? An xtal who's additional attack is procd by attacking, when you have no agi for aspd? (wol for atk, Look at indigo2 it gives aspd)
It may not be perfect bishop but it will not be uselss |
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Roxzen
Community Contributor
Goodbye :) Thanks for the memories Iruna, the Forums was an awesome place!
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Post by Roxzen on Apr 12, 2015 22:54:31 GMT
Crt has like no place in the build. Look at your stat^ Int Dex Crt Vit, since crt doesnt help in spell burst proc, you have NO AGI, the build looks like a spell spam build to me, even if you get dual blow, using autoskill xtals and gear will get you higher dps than crtical attacks alone. Well, Using magic bows will have low eva but aspd will be so same. So answer this does bishop need eva more than matk? So they DON’T need agi. U r totally off the topic even rod bishop doesn’t have agi they use int dex vit *only sword bishop need it*. Agi not essential for bishops. If u place agi with cri then atk or damage will be low and bow bishop will be completely useless. I put critical becuz it support bows, if i put agi ,it will only help bishops in casting but bow bishop omg Idk how to explain , anyway I will give a simple example of other classes rod minstrel or etc, why would he choice rod if he know the nail is better? Lmt why, becuz there is other POSSIBLE stats for minstrel (just an example don’t fight me over minstrel now) so I was showing there are other stats that can be usefull at higher lvl , that all. I only see 1 bow with aspd. Please read what I wrote again No I am not saying that bish needs eva, you're getting my point wrong. Wol+Crt stat = melee auto attack to me, which also = pointless to me for magic class besided Ench. Im actually not off the topic. Im simply at a loss to why you still insist to have crt. Show me where crt helps bows/magic bows with attack/matk pl0x. |
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Roxzen
Community Contributor
Goodbye :) Thanks for the memories Iruna, the Forums was an awesome place!
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Post by Roxzen on Apr 12, 2015 23:04:33 GMT
Crt has like no place in the build. Look at your stat^ Int Dex Crt Vit Let me put this simply: 1. No agi = not max aspd, even if you had autoskill ai setup, you wouldn't reach max aspd. So autoattacking wouldnt make sense, even if you had high crts, casting your spells would out dps your auto attacks. (but still there will be 20% aspd)2. Bishop afaik has no spells that can crt, and even if they used spell burst% gear, crt will not raise the proc rate.( but bows does have stats that support cri)3. Using equipment/xtals with Magic Autoskills will benefit you more than crtical attacks alone since magic will deal much more. (This is if you get Dual Blow) (it will deal with both cri for physical and int dex Later vit for magic)4. You said it yourself that the build will be focusing mainly on matk, why put wol? An xtal who's additional attack is procd by attacking, when you have no agi for aspd? (wol for atk, Look at indigo2 it gives aspd)
It may not be perfect bishop but it will not be uselss Instead of Wol get Cherose a magic version of wol. |
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