|
Post by HawkEyè5 on Jan 26, 2015 1:45:47 GMT
I've been thinking about Veltria xtal but not really sure. You wouldn't be a healer but it would be nice to be able to revive tank or healer if your the last one left in boss party. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by MiLiGRiTo on Jan 26, 2015 2:13:14 GMT
I'm not sure why people relate bigger MP pool to loads of MP. After you exhaust your MP, you resort to potions (salt, remagic) in which case you are no different to a 1INT sniper (since you both get fixed amount of MP, this unless you sit every round to recover). Of course, if you have more than 5k+mp you can probably use Dango for better MP recovery than 1INT snipers. But then again, is it worth it?
The advantage of a bigger MP pool is that you get more MP from Bless and HW do not have to fill you up more frequently, but then again, for the practicality of it, if a better DPS sniper kills the boss with 5 hits and you kill it with 10 hits. Isn't that more MP consuming? For sure you will need more MP than a normal build, hence, you negate the advantage that you had. Plus, you defeat the purpose of a sniper (which is to provide DPS and result to faster grinds).
And really, having over 1k MDEF with 1k to 3k HP doesn't really get very far.
I'm not trying to discourage magic bow builds, for all we know there might be some combination with other class buffs that might make these snipers hit more DPS than normal bow builds. I'm just trying to set the objectives straight.
Afterall, each build has a purpose (or should have one), you can even build 6stats for the purpose of versatility although it may seem impractical.
|
|
|
Post by HawkEyè5 on Jan 26, 2015 2:26:41 GMT
I'm not sure why people relate bigger MP pool to loads of MP. After you exhaust your MP, you resort to potions (salt, remagic) in which case you are no different to a 1INT sniper (since you both get fixed amount of MP, this unless you sit every round to recover). Of course, if you have more than 5k+mp you can probably use Dango for better MP recovery than 1INT snipers. But then again, is it worth it? The advantage of a bigger MP pool is that you get more MP from Bless and HW do not have to fill you up more frequently, but then again, for the practicality of it, if a better DPS sniper kills the boss with 5 hits and you kill it with 10 hits. Isn't that more MP consuming? For sure you will need more MP than a normal build, hence, you negate the advantage that you had. Plus, you defeat the purpose of a sniper (which is to provide DPS and result to faster grinds). And really, having over 1k MDEF with 1k to 3k HP doesn't really get very far. I'm not trying to discourage magic bow builds, for all we know there might be some combination with other class buffs that might make these snipers hit more DPS than normal bow builds. I'm just trying to set the objectives straight. Afterall, each build has a purpose (or should have one), you can even build 6stats for the purpose of versatility although it may seem impractical. I feel where this one would do best is in the complete sense of support. Buffing everyone, High venom damage for consistent damage, high mp pool to relieve another distraction to hwiz til after boss. Figuring out an advantage with freeze, fast shot, and sniping would be great. This sniper would be the minstrel of snipers. And later would be great assistance to Area Rain/Crossfire snipers as abnormal states like freeze boost damage of the attack. Thus saving more mp towards spamming skills. So snipers could just find other sniper to be there support for damage.
|
|
|
Post by talia on Jan 26, 2015 2:32:30 GMT
I think that's just a general upside to veltria, not something dependent on this build.
|
|
|
Post by HawkEyè5 on Jan 26, 2015 2:34:35 GMT
I think that's just a general upside to veltria, not something dependent on this build. Yea I was just curious if it would be relevant to this build or not.
|
|
|
Post by ManaKhe on Jan 26, 2015 2:57:26 GMT
I think that's just a general upside to veltria, not something dependent on this build. Yea I was just curious if it would be relevant to this build or not. Veltria is relevant to anyone that doesn't have a heal pretty much. It's just a matter of whether you feel it's worth it or not. I was gonna just tag you not so single out this post in particular but for some reason the forum isn't letting me tag anyone . Anyways here are replies to previous posts xD. Crossfire Sniper is top DPS over AR Sniper and MP is a complete non issue for them as its super cheap to spam, I guess it's pretty much the same build though just different equips xD. I can understand not wanting to be #1 badass in the game. I'm not running builds with Quick Cool Level 5 Abilities when they would benefit me a decent amount, at least on Monk, takes waaay too long. This is a discussion on Magic Bow builds and I'm simply comparing them to Regular Bow. It may help you decide whether you want to build one or not and what to expect DPS wise when you do. All Sniper builds are just as good at supporting as any other. Having INT isn't going to make you better at it. One thing I can say is that High Wizards will haaate MPing you in EXP parties as a regular bow Sniper. I don't know why it's just High Wizards usually and Enchanters usually do MP for some reason . I believe I've kicked an Hwiz from an EXP party in favor of an Enchanter because he didn't MP anyone while he was doing the lowest damage. Back on topic Magic Bow Sniper may reduce this problem in EXP parties as you will have a higher MP pool but people will still see a Sniper under 240 and be like hmm... Same thing goes for Auto Attack Snipers as well. I would like for better Magic Bows to be released. The one you mentioned is a lot better than current options because of the item delay. They need a little more than that though. They should do a little less damage than Regular Bow Snipers without Chakra and a decent bit more with it. Right now its a good bit less without it and a little less with it due to weapon stat differences.
|
|
|
Post by ManaKhe on Jan 26, 2015 3:13:35 GMT
As of now I'm afraid you might be right about how much better the normal bows in the current game are than the magic bows. I realized that when I first began working on this build in my mind. But this is for people obviously trying to do something different than the common ar and spec bow snipers. But onto the number crunching Dex str crt normal bow with thimble 1 dex = 3 ATk 1 str = 2 ATk Crt is for multiplier and later skills Int dex crt Magic bow user with thimble and chakra 2(+1 ATk by int) 1 int = 3 ATk 1 dex = 2.5 ATk 1 crt = 1/6th ATk With chakra this build should get more ATk per point than ar snipers. By .66 ATk at 3 capped stats. Yes snipers have better bows that offer ATk+% which brings their totals higher, but they don't have the large mp pool to spam skills heavily. As for dex int crt vs int crt dex, with a thimble dex int crt should provide slightly higher damage at first but with the loss of mp which is kind of the point of this build. That's why I suggested using the item that ilovegirlswithglasses suggested to pump int and still be able to hit consistently with a large mp pool. Yes the damage will be slightly lower but it can be easily made up by spamming ar with your loads of mp. Any other thoughts on the build? Chakra 3 is out and it's a good bit higher than 1 ATK extra(at least with Throwing Equipped) and closer to 1.5. That does put the amount they get from stats higher than that of Regular Bow but all the Magic Bow's out have pretty low ATK and meh stats(aside from this one's item delay) so that and Regular Bow stats more than make up the difference. This shouldn't be the case as Magic Bow builds should do more with Chakra than Regular Bow's but sadly they don't. Milligrito already said the thing about how higher max MP doesn't really help with MP concerns much. As for the reason to add INT first I have a few thoughts on this: The main reason you state is to have higher MP at lower levels. You cap your first stat by level 83. So if you did start DEX first you would start INT at level 83/84. You really won't be using any MP before level 83 as Lvl 1 AR is pretty crappy. There's also the hit rate to think about with AR and if you do INT first you will be missing with AR too much and it won't be useful at all. So basically without max DEX the main skill that will be eating your MP will be useless. There's also the skill delay of AR to think about as it's much faster with max DEX as compared to no DEX. Also with max DEX you can use Scarlet Ribbon to attack at pretty much max ASPD to save MP early on and that's easier to get a hold of than any of the Magic Bows. You can't use it without the DEX as it lowers hit too much for that.
|
|
|
Post by talia on Jan 26, 2015 3:31:21 GMT
Well if your making your primary role buffing and being the back up healer, then yes. But if you find yourself attacking at all, the boss will come after you not leaving you much time to heal anyone else since as a sniper you'll have low hp def and eva. Just my thought. And yes miligrito, this build at it's current state seems a bit underwhelming, but hopefully in the future well be treated with better m bows or maybe some with magic based autoskills or something that this build would benefit more from than a normal bow sniper. The effects of chakra 1, 2, and 3 are .8, 1.0, and 1.2 respectively x int + a constant base increase if you use nail or throwing (I'm unsure of the base constant) And your right about ar hit rate without dex, it's something I completely forgot about >.< and like you said without ar there's no point in having tons of mp. And yes the skill delay of ar would be pretty pathetic without capped dex so I could see for that reason dex first would probably be better suited. Scarlet ribbon ok awesome that's something I hadn't thought of initially that could benefit the build when leveling.
|
|
|
Post by HawkEyè5 on Jan 26, 2015 3:43:20 GMT
If you're going AR for magic bow your only stat option in my "opinion" is either go DEX with thimble til AR level 1 or 2, then go INT. Or go INT till AR level 1 then go DEX.
I only say this because atk growth consistency while leveling is more important to me. Each level I get stronger rather than I have great atk for how low a level I am than I plateau.
|
|
|
Post by talia on Jan 26, 2015 4:08:05 GMT
Max dex for hit rate with ar will probably be best followed by int. ATk wouldn't plateau switching to int, just slightly drop to a different linear increase. From +7.5 to +6 per level
|
|
|
Post by HawkEyè5 on Jan 26, 2015 4:21:11 GMT
At max DEX and INT with max Adistactos+9, and thimble your atk should be around 1454. That would be around level 171. I'll ask my guildie who's level 170 AR sniper what his arrow rain does at that level.
|
|
|
Post by ManaKhe on Jan 26, 2015 6:08:30 GMT
Well if your making your primary role buffing and being the back up healer, then yes. But if you find yourself attacking at all, the boss will come after you not leaving you much time to heal anyone else since as a sniper you'll have low hp def and eva. Just my thought. And yes miligrito, this build at it's current state seems a bit underwhelming, but hopefully in the future well be treated with better m bows or maybe some with magic based autoskills or something that this build would benefit more from than a normal bow sniper. The effects of chakra 1, 2, and 3 are .8, 1.0, and 1.2 respectively x int + a constant base increase if you use nail or throwing (I'm unsure of the base constant) And your right about ar hit rate without dex, it's something I completely forgot about >.< and like you said without ar there's no point in having tons of mp. And yes the skill delay of ar would be pretty pathetic without capped dex so I could see for that reason dex first would probably be better suited. Scarlet ribbon ok awesome that's something I hadn't thought of initially that could benefit the build when leveling. Idk it seems higher than 1.2 on my Monk xD. Yeah Scarlet Ribbon is good for low levels, emphasis on the low though. Auto Attack damage from a non CRT built class that isn't Enchanter is pretty bad. It should be fine for a while though. The lack of AGI will make some stuff difficult early on, but hey this isn't a claw or special bow build for melee so you will just be crappy early on regardless of what you do.
|
|
|
Post by talia on Jan 26, 2015 6:33:19 GMT
Got that info strait from jp wiki and you have to remember buff effects are further affected by ATk +% gears and xtals making the difference seem bigger. And yes I think everyone in iruna understands this xD
|
|
|
Post by MiLiGRiTo on Jan 26, 2015 7:03:45 GMT
The effects of chakra 1, 2, and 3 are .8, 1.0, and 1.2 respectively x int + a constant base increase if you use nail or throwing (I'm unsure of the base constant) This is a good example on how to make magic bows hit better than normal bows. It seems situational but if you learn to abuse (like party up with a monk all the time) then you end up with something that is OP.
|
|
|
Post by talia on Jan 26, 2015 7:12:29 GMT
The effects of chakra 1, 2, and 3 are .8, 1.0, and 1.2 respectively x int + a constant base increase if you use nail or throwing (I'm unsure of the base constant) This is a good example on how to make magic bows hit better than normal bows. It seems situational but if you learn to abuse (like party up with a monk all the time) then you end up with something that is OP. Yes this is what I've been getting at haha. As soon as I gather the basic gears for this I'm going to definitely test it out ^^ hopefully goes better than my first sniper way back more than a year ago xD
|
|