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Post by lacs on Aug 28, 2016 2:42:50 GMT
the high increase in price vs the lowest difference on defense on equipment, why would you make an equipment +9 if it's already +8? it's just one defense, it shouldn't be worth spending 20 more orichalcums just for a +9, or is it? will it is, every little bit in equipment matters a lot, first of all, the chances of getting a higher defense /attack equipment when dropping em is lower, then, trying to get a max def or max atk gets even harder, those are so rare, mostly because trying to achieve a max atk or def on equipment is mostly because of someone strengthened it using production, try searching myrica on stalls and sort em by defense, just the first 5-10 are defense 1, the rest 30 or something are defense 0, there really really rare chances of finding one with defense 2, and i just haven't seen one with defense 3, the price increases because of how rare it is to get one, not because of how useful it is Refine values are completely different from DEF afaik. irunaonline.boards.net/thread/4/refining-guideWe're talking DEF here. Anyway, exactly! People just pay ridiculous amounts of money for insignificant damage reduction because of rarity and not its use. Seems dumb to me. but here says it's the same Received Physical Damage Calculation = (Enemy ATK + Random Value (0 to about 20% of the Enemy ATK) - Own DEF) × [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] × (1 - Physical Resistance) the equipment def values + complete equipment refine value so if my armor is def 8, and my refinement is +8 is the same as armor def7 and refinement value +9, isn't it? o.o? |
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Post by nic123 on Aug 28, 2016 3:28:50 GMT
Is it just me or 2 to 3 DEF/ 3 to 5 ATK really have little to nothing difference in damage/resistance. I don't quite understand the logic behind paying huge money for a small DEF/ATK difference. Recently, someone declined to buy my KGS because they wanted D1 (1 defense). In my head : "boi u stuped. 1 def does nothing" Maybe I'm wrong tho. Some people are what u call perfectionist. everything has to be top tier. saw a tellas 2s Max atk buyer. In my head I was like he would be lucky to find normal 2s. then I sent him a kind pm saying it's only maxed with prod and recipe isn't even out. Then he changed to @274. But yea some people only want very best for bragging rights most likely |
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SoulBurn
Member
Life is a piece of cake..enjoy it, share it
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Post by SoulBurn on Aug 29, 2016 4:46:41 GMT
mm is that true max ATK & DEF equiptment more hard to refine @blacksmith?
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Yazmat
Community Contributor 
Pally Lv351 | Alchy Lv318
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Post by Yazmat on Aug 29, 2016 9:08:31 GMT
mm is that true max ATK & DEF equiptment more hard to refine @blacksmith? personal experience yes (the closer to max the harder)... hard to verify that |
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Post by abj13 on Aug 29, 2016 9:41:06 GMT
mm is that true max ATK & DEF equiptment more hard to refine @blacksmith? Yes. Max ATK is more hard to refine. And for me, weapon with high atk (more than 200) is more hard. Thats why i never refine weapon if its already upgraded (Upgraded weapon means more ATK) |
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Namitsuki
Member
Loving the Island Stalls. Good bye Rokoko.
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Post by Namitsuki on Aug 29, 2016 16:34:10 GMT
mm is that true max ATK & DEF equiptment more hard to refine @blacksmith? Yes. Max ATK is more hard to refine. And for me, weapon with high atk (more than 200) is more hard. Thats why i never refine weapon if its already upgraded (Upgraded weapon means more ATK) Actually, upgraded weapons are harder to refine than their non-upgraded version. Also higher grade gears are harder to refine than lower grade ones. They also cost more to refine, making it easy to spot the difference. But when it comes to the same equipment I think there's no difference in difficulty between refining a lowest ATK and a highest ATK, providing both have the same number of slots (more slots make it harder to refine). Of course I could be wrong, since I've never actually tried to do that comparison. |
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Post by asilie on Sept 7, 2016 3:24:55 GMT
Does weapon atk value have effect for magic based skill like for hw and bishops?
I always thought i won't need to spend extra spina to buy max atk weapon since im a bishop and all my skill are based on matk but i see lots of people buying only max atk weapons.
Even for classes like bishops.
( sorry for bad English)
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Post by Owe on Sept 7, 2016 4:37:18 GMT
Does weapon atk value have effect for magic based skill like for hw and bishops? I always thought i won't need to spend extra spina to buy max atk weapon since im a bishop and all my skill are based on matk but i see lots of people buying only max atk weapons. Even for classes like bishops. ( sorry for bad English) As far as I know... Yes the atk of a weapon affects both atk and Matk stat. |
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skeewi
Member
Hate speech is best speech
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Post by skeewi on Sept 7, 2016 7:05:42 GMT
Does weapon atk value have effect for magic based skill like for hw and bishops? I always thought i won't need to spend extra spina to buy max atk weapon since im a bishop and all my skill are based on matk but i see lots of people buying only max atk weapons. Even for classes like bishops. ( sorry for bad English) As far as I know... Yes the atk of a weapon affects both atk and Matk stat. Only if it's a rod. |
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Post by asilie on Sept 7, 2016 8:42:01 GMT
Thank you
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Post by AizenSou [Quitting] on Oct 1, 2016 18:58:54 GMT
How worth it is worth it tho? The damage difference is very insignificant in comparison to a huge increase in price afaik. Same with def and damage reduction. 1% per def? Maybe you're pertaining to refinement. Because if that's the case, my gladiator will have -1350% damage. XD Can someone post a comparison? I noticed this using Sword Tempest (Gladiator) and Paladin (Guardian). No change at all. Too bad I already sold my @max Transer (@175). It didn't have a noticable increase in damage from @162. Both +9 and no crystals. The 1% per DEF only works for equipment DEF plus refinement. Your character defense goes into another part of the formula. Received Physical Damage Calculation = (Enemy ATK + Random Value (0 to about 20% of the Enemy ATK) - Own DEF) × [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] × (1 - Physical Resistance) [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] means every 1 def for equipment gives 0.01, or 1% less damage, after the damage calculation that uses your character's DEF, making equipment def basically the same thing as Physical Resistance. If I'm not mistaken you cant get much above 40~50 total equipment DEF (at least i dont remember any equipment with more than 20ish def). For ATK the calculation is more complex, like i said before: White Physical Damage = [ATK + Weapon ATK Value + Own Lv - Enemy Lv - Enemy DEF + (Random Numbers)] × (1 + Attribute Coefficient) + (Melee) I can never figure if your weapon's atk get calculated twice or not and in this case the equipment stats will be a bigger influence than the actual ATK number when the difference in ATK is small. That's to say that it's worth it to get the high ATK version only when it's not too way out of your budget and you will keep it for long and keep it upgraded whenever possible, since the difference is much smaller than in the DEF case. So in my opinion getting the highest ATK weapon is worth it if we are talking about an older but still relevant weapon, like Koda, Princely Rod and Priest Staff since they are easier to make and the price isnt all that high, making it a bit pointless to get the lower ATK versions unless your budget is really that small. When we are talking about newer weapons with sky high prices for high ATK and difficult strengthening process, i dont think it's worth it to buy the highest ATK. The price is too high for such a small difference. It's not work like that as DEF from gear and Resistant are working differently. DEF from gear would divide the damage taken while Resistant would reduce it. So if you have DEF total 100 from gear (though that's not possible) that would divide the damage by 100 while 100% of Resistant would reduce the damage taken by 100% (though this is not possible too as 5% is minimum number) speaking wisely better goes for Resistant rather than high seeking of high def gear. However refinement would increase the value of both ATK and DEF a gear had. That would be seen as an increase in the stat |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 22:54:24 GMT
As far as I know... Yes the atk of a weapon affects both atk and Matk stat. Only if it's a rod. |
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Namitsuki
Member
Loving the Island Stalls. Good bye Rokoko.
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Post by Namitsuki on Oct 1, 2016 23:32:06 GMT
The 1% per DEF only works for equipment DEF plus refinement. Your character defense goes into another part of the formula. Received Physical Damage Calculation = (Enemy ATK + Random Value (0 to about 20% of the Enemy ATK) - Own DEF) × [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] × (1 - Physical Resistance) [1 - (Equip DEF Values + Complete Equip Refine Value) ÷ 100] means every 1 def for equipment gives 0.01, or 1% less damage, after the damage calculation that uses your character's DEF, making equipment def basically the same thing as Physical Resistance. If I'm not mistaken you cant get much above 40~50 total equipment DEF (at least i dont remember any equipment with more than 20ish def). For ATK the calculation is more complex, like i said before: White Physical Damage = [ATK + Weapon ATK Value + Own Lv - Enemy Lv - Enemy DEF + (Random Numbers)] × (1 + Attribute Coefficient) + (Melee) I can never figure if your weapon's atk get calculated twice or not and in this case the equipment stats will be a bigger influence than the actual ATK number when the difference in ATK is small. That's to say that it's worth it to get the high ATK version only when it's not too way out of your budget and you will keep it for long and keep it upgraded whenever possible, since the difference is much smaller than in the DEF case. So in my opinion getting the highest ATK weapon is worth it if we are talking about an older but still relevant weapon, like Koda, Princely Rod and Priest Staff since they are easier to make and the price isnt all that high, making it a bit pointless to get the lower ATK versions unless your budget is really that small. When we are talking about newer weapons with sky high prices for high ATK and difficult strengthening process, i dont think it's worth it to buy the highest ATK. The price is too high for such a small difference. It's not work like that as DEF from gear and Resistant are working differently. DEF from gear would divide the damage taken while Resistant would reduce it. So if you have DEF total 100 from gear (though that's not possible) that would divide the damage by 100 while 100% of Resistant would reduce the damage taken by 100% (though this is not possible too as 5% is minimum number) speaking wisely better goes for Resistant rather than high seeking of high def gear. However refinement would increase the value of both ATK and DEF a gear had. That would be seen as an increase in the stat Hum... Since we are pretty sure that IS the correct formula, I can only assume your understanding of how DEF from gear and Physical Res. works is incorrect or that you didnt look closely enough at the math. DEF from gear and Physical Res. works in the exact same way, and they are cumulative, but it's not an addition rather it's a mutiplication. That means that if you have (hypotetical numbers) 50 DEF from gear and 50% Physical Res. you wont be getting a reduction of 100%, but you will get 75% less damage (or 25% of the total damage if you prefer it that way). So supposing the enemy deals 1000 damage when you have no Physical Res and 0 gear DEF, the Math would look like this: 1000 x 0.5 x 0.5 = = 1000 x 0.25 = 250 And that happens because of the multiplication. My guess is that they made it that way so you couldnt negate 100% of the damage easily. But anyway the only real difference between the 2 is that you can see more easily that Physical Res is a percentage, while the lack of symbols make it unclear that DEF from gear is also a percentage, until you look at the formula. |
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Post by Crysta| on Oct 2, 2016 5:59:09 GMT
If physical resist 95% was possible solely from equip stats and buffs, would DEF and refinement matter? Seeing as the cap is 95%, refinement to +9 being +9%(+18% if additional gear is also +9) the DEF of armor and additional gear would be irrelevant.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 6:24:33 GMT
If physical resist 95% was possible solely from equip stats and buffs, would DEF and refinement matter? Seeing as the cap is 95%, refinement to +9 being +9%(+18% if additional gear is also +9) the DEF of armor and additional gear would be irrelevant.
Here I was able to achieve 84% physical resistance, 99% magic resistance and 81% rate cut. Of course I was trying to balance the three, but if I were to focus solely on physical r I think 95% is possible, but probably not just equip stats and buffs :/ |
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