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Post by 'AhSaN' on Jul 1, 2017 11:11:36 GMT
Hi Guys! I am 'AhSaN' and this is probably my first post in Ninja section. I'd like to make Ninja get taken in parties, because I have seen 90% Claw Ninja being Solo and to be honest, I being a Crysta-less Monk dealt more damage than a Well-Geared Ninja. (Don't Mind!). My Friend said "Because Ninjas are not taken in party, either they have to solo their way up, Quit or do the 'easy way'".
So I decided to give a little shot in Ninja. I'M NOT A NINJA AND I HAVE 0% IDEA ABOUT NINJA. SO CORRECT ME WHERE I AM WRONG!
Well, I tried to find making Ninja a DPS. Yes it's a DPS but I haven't seen any Ninja deal as much DPS that could be good for party. I've heard about the survivabilty about Ninjas, their clones keeping themselves alive. So I thought that "Maybe I could turn them into Tank? And so I wrote this post.
I'll give an example of this set. This is mainly going to rise hate so we can protect our PT members
Kodachi + Provoke Skill Crysta (Temporary Weapon to provoke the enemy, then just go back to normal claw)
Ira + Interfike
Daiginjo [Holiday] + Wyn
Catura Talisman + WoL
A little expain :
The weapon is just for provoking the enemy, Then switching back to main claw.
Interfike is to cut attack interval so Ninja can generate more hate.
Daiginjo's Hate Rise and Wyn is Autoskill so it will have good hate rise?
WoL has Autoskill giving a little hate.
So, how is it? I'm not a Ninja !
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Post by 'AhSaN' on Jul 1, 2017 11:28:22 GMT
Always tag me when you post something. I don't check any threads often. (Except Monk Thread)
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Post by dontmindme on Jul 1, 2017 13:13:12 GMT
Well, I tried to find making Ninja a DPS. Yes it's a DPS but I haven't seen any Ninja deal as much DPS that could be good for party. I've heard about the survivabilty about Ninjas, their clones keeping themselves alive. So I thought that "Maybe I could turn them into Tank? And so I wrote this post.
NINJAS CANNOT TANK!!! Unless you invest in provoke abis and give up more damage, you cannot tank. Ninjas are incredibly frail even with clones. Paralysis, Stun, Blind and Poison can easily break a ninja that does not use curing items/vaccines or light green eggs. The hate rise on agi ninjas is incredibly low compared to other classes so the aggro will switch quickly. I also want to fix that you might not have seen any agi ninja deal dps good for party, since most of them are solo, doc spammers, Pf ninjas or switched to sk. Trust me, they can deal a nice amount of damage even without sh. Also you need a cloning set. Phrases are a little bit on the slow side when cloning so you might need to give up some hate rise as well to actually survive. NOT TO BE RUDE OR ANYTHING, but a lot of people have already tried this but we just give up on it since it's not very effective and would cost more than just being able to deal good damage. |
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Post by Zycron on Jul 1, 2017 13:23:04 GMT
In my experience they kind of are a sooo class although my ninja is only lvl 301 so I'm sure that's the reason but as a nail ninja monk blew dps away buy a lot as bow ninja sniper dps blow it away as magic ninja well any caster including geo monk wins lol so ya they are not the top dps I don't think but ya they def wouldn't make good tanks at all
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 13:37:41 GMT
Skill spammer from other class will always take hate from you.
I experience this before with my ninja.
Using Daijingo will horrible make you additional attack (white damage) missed a lot thus hate generate very low.
The only time I see ninja tank is SH ninja which very lame everywhere when I on my mq.
So claw ninja just better off soloing. Tanking is not ninja actual play style they are more likely survival against heavy damage but die from ailment and mini stun with damage from boss. There are better tank class out there. Claw ninja now just a history or relic of the past when it come to so call "tanking" in parties.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 16:19:23 GMT
Make it STR,CRT VIT normal sword doc spammer ninja. There you might have the chance to tank.
But to say tanking using clones? Nope thats not tank. It is called escape from death.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 18:32:16 GMT
'AhSaN' lemme try ouo gotta love challenges like these
Okay, so first of all, I'll share my experience as a Samurai who wanted to tank via auto attack, since this, I think, is possible to achieve for an AGI CRT STR Ninja.
{ SPOILER: Click to show/hide.} My hate equipment were Posession (+50% hate rise, no xtal) and Catura Talisman with Provoke auto xtal. Also had +20% hate rise from Halios. That's a whopping +70% hate rise. I could deal 16k critical damage with that set, but goes down to 14k when Provoke auto procs. Doesn't seem to happen to other chars but Samurai. Provoke auto has a very good proc rate with just +19% autoskill. It's definitely worth using. So I was tanking Minaula raid bosses with a Bishop I randomly partied. I never lost aggro, until debuffs came and I lost resu and died. Boss went for the poor Bishop as I tried to regain the lost aggro. I couldn't. I never got aggro back until the Bishop died. That was disappointing, but I haven't given up yet on tanking as an autoskill Samurai. I'll try Taunt Bangle <Provoke> next, add Rowell on add gear and see if it'll make any difference.
TL;DR: Keeping aggro as an autoskill Samurai was very possible, however regaining aggro after death is hard.
Alright, now to try making a ninja as close to what I did as possible, this is what I thought of.
{ SPOILER: Click to show/hide.} Bloody Ruler <Kaphar> Ira <Interfike> Posession <Rowell> Taunt Bangle <Provoke> Abilities: Evasion; Provoke I could already smell the questions XD. 1. Why use a Sword? - Needs quite a bit of STR, but the hate rise and high ATK should be good for tanking. 2. What about our damage? - The goal of the build is to tank, so unfortunately, I sacrificed quite a lot of DPS to fulfill that role. Feel free to switch equipment to suit your preferences. 3. What about cloning? - You won't do that here, rather, there's no need to. You have crap damage anyway, so DoC will be pretty useless here. Just get enough evasion (800+ is my preferred amount) and re-clone using Bunshin. You'll probably use Desperate Move sometimes when Interfike's autoskill eats away at your HP. 4. This build sucks. - Thank you for being honest o3o
TL;DR: Provided in the spoiler above is a set that sacrifices damage for hate rise.
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♪Sumire
Member
Summoner new skills pls *-*
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Post by ♪Sumire on Jul 2, 2017 16:57:21 GMT
just wanna share a little something xD ..... as of recently I made a int dex char named zavant.....and as of a few hours earlier I had finished mq as a lvl 295 magic ninja.... just wanna say my tankiness is fairly good got hi mdef ..
1.2k and 500 def with close to 15k HP with DMG gear .. survival is high cause of domination utsusemi makibishi full green line and 60 stats on green giving me 600 Eva - with blue epaulette and bellow of order ..certifies my survival ^^ as for the stun - lge ★qu items solves it....as for hate well provoke might be of use xD
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Post by Owe on Jul 4, 2017 21:27:52 GMT
Well if I was going to make this build I'd use a special throwing weapon { Equips and Build}Luke raider <grapagos/pulis> Exelis (especially when the third up comes out)/ultimi (ultimi if you choose to use pulis)/ schwermer (great for hp, durability and damage but no atk% which this build desperately needs  again if you choose this go with pulis and don't use iniliba, use belial/aldi(when it's released lol)/amatis/mago instead) <iniliba/belial> Brave shield/ daiginjo (ailment cure + durability or damage, up to you) <raton> Killing seed (minimizes wasted stat points going to have a low attack anyway, can't make it too low)/ ror <noid> And carry another spec like these with gentleness (more on that later) At least 2 QC the other 3 can be a mix of provoke and QU abis, I would recommend 1 provoke (to be put on your accessory slot) and 2 QU. Finally have a gentleness on another accessory For als Cheltil, mael, sauro ii other than that is up to you Useful als: halios, gauchel, shelk, octocur, merario, possibly gk?, mamonea, malti, enina With that set you can be an auto attacker or a 7-9 doc spammer (9 with bish quick), and as far as I know, doc isn't affected by dai's negatives. Therefore, it should allow you to maintain hate fairly decently (luke+dai+prov 5= +75% hate). In case you're wondering, yes auto attack will mess up your spam if you're not timing it correctly but it's a small price to pay for the durability Agi provides. If you're really worried, you can either use green apostolia lines and build eva that way or use Carib horns/lud shield or any other aspd modifiers. Build the stats to maximize surviving but take crt all the way up no matter what build Example Max crt (maxed crit damage multiplier), 256 Agi (capped eva rate), split Int and vit (Around 435 crt, 380 int/vit, 256 Agi at cap and max apo) As for combat you'll have to get creative depending on the scenario Scenario 1 - you're the tank - in this scenario I'd say don't worry about dealing damage as much, just use bushin and spam away Scenario 2 - you're not the tank - this is where your second spec and gentleness abis come in. Put these on and spam away with max clones If you insist on pure auto though, it's harder but not impossible?? Just auto attack generates faaaar less hate than a skill (damage is added to an already much higher hate growth value when talking hate from skills... Hard to compensate for) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 23:57:27 GMT
Owe first of all, that post is hard to read XD. Everything is in bold, tho I guess that doesn't look that way on mobile. Had the same problem before qwq. Could be fixed by following the code below:
[spoiler]{insert spoiler title here}content[/spoiler]
Now that that's out of the way, lemme comment on your post ouo
1. The goal is to make your typical ninja (talking about AGI CRT builds) a tank, not to make a whole new build that allows ninjas to tank. At least, that is how I understood the question. I'll have to ask 'AhSaN' for confirmation. If a new build is allowed by the asker, then disregard this o3o
2. DoC is affected by Dai's negatives unfortunately, so you'd need to edit the build to accomodate critical rate+ stuff such as Technique abilities. Tested this a long time ago and should still stand unless it was recently tweaked to be as such. I would recommend using Posession or any other high hate rise+ add instead.
3. The example build would have low evasion. you'll have an estimated amount of 800 evasion with Ultimi, Shelk and 8 Green Lines (no GR) at Lv350. Needless to say, evasion is important to this build since less clones = less damage = less hate. I would suggest adding 350 AGI for GK and/or Evasion abilities, or simply opt for Exelis.
4. Spamming with high ASPD is gonna be quite a challenge, but it's not impossible. I myself have been training recently. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone who's not dedicated to take on the challenge. There are quite a lot of people out there whose idea of spamming is tapping the skill button 10 times per second, which I must say is tiring as heck.
5. Scenario 1 and your equipment set doesn't match up. If you're just going to spam Bunshin no Jutsu, which only takes you to 3 clones, why do you need so much -sd in the first place? In my opinion, a) separate tank set and full spam set, or b) spam with both sets mixed in one while spamming 7-9 clones as you suggested.
6. Based on my experience as an autoskill Samurai, generating and maintaining hate via autoattack isn't as hard as one would think. This became possible because of Provoke auto xtal. However, once you die and lose all that hate you accumulated, it's quite hard to bring it back up, even for a skill spammer. For situations like those, you might want to include a hate rise set to quickly put you back in the red, one that doesn't consider survivability since you can easily Phrase out of it in one tap once you've done your job. Then again, this is based on my observation of another class, which might not work for Ninjas.
7. I'll provide an estimated major stat list based on info above that this build will achieve:
{ SPOILER: Click to show/hide.} Equipment: Luke Raider <Pulis> QC 5 Ultimi re up <Iniliba> QC 4 Daiginjo up <Raton> QC 3 Accessory Provoke 5 Killer Seed <Beelzenoid> QC 2 Stat Build: Same as example Al Crysta: -sd al xtals + Shelk + Mamonea Major Stat Totals @lv350 (excluding Shuriken Mastery): Base ATK = 1.8k+ ATK = +23% Critical Damage = +70% Critical Rate = 64% Auto Attack Damage = 2.2k+ (white); 13.7k+ (critical) DoC Lv2 Damage = 49.3k+ (3 clones); 115k+ (7 clones); 147k+ (9 clones) Hate Rise = +75% Evasion = 800
8. Overall interesting build, but needs some work. Now considering special throwings on my next not-so-common builds ouo
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Post by Owe on Jul 5, 2017 2:50:37 GMT
Sorry that was my first time playing with spoilers xD and came out all bold. I'll try fixing it now 1 I was thinking I misunderstood the post on the low. But that was the best way I could imagine a ninja being able tank (mixture of hp and eva) sorry xD 2 that sucks, I thought I remembered that dai didn't affect crit rate on doc but guess I was wrong lol in that case more hate is probably better as you said, or maybe force helm for more damage 3 I agree with this too lol, one of the beautiful things about special throwing is the ability to move stats around easily though xD 4 it's kinda hard to get used to agreed but I usually spam at full aspd, maybe missing one or two every ten or so. If not Carib horns or some other -aspd gear is an ok alternative 5 The reason I offered bushin as an example is because lowering hp seems counterproductive for a tank to me, i.e. farming leviam and you go from let's say 9 to 5 clones you change to a 1 hp set ... you die and the party dies just had an idea though... instead of lowering hp why not raise it??? Too tired to think things through right now but theoretically it would work right?? 6 I've tried a hate build with just auto attacking (a monk btw) but couldn't do it consistently. Then again it was back when I didn't know as much about iruna and before the hate formula change so perhaps it would be different now |
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Eaysley
Community Contributor 
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Jul 5, 2017 2:57:12 GMT
Anyone can be a tank if you're brave enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 3:45:30 GMT
2. Owe Force Helm actually sounds good ouo damage and hate in one add.
4. I usually end up rage quitting after 30 tries or so XD still can't get that darn timing down perfectly.
5. So you were gunning for option a) then ouo I thought the same.
6. Haven't tried hate set on Monk. I probably will as soon as I get Shelk ouo (yeah both my Geo and Rush Monks can tank a bit XD). Question: have you tried Provoke auto xtal? You can synthesize it in Sofya.
Eaysley well said XD
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Post by cyanrave1 on Jul 5, 2017 6:09:11 GMT
this was on a japanese update jan 1st so we may see it soon ish? (must be logged in facebook to see)  |
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again if you choose this go with pulis and don't use iniliba, use belial/aldi(when it's released lol)/amatis/mago instead) <iniliba/belial>
