Kamisama
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The Omnipotent God And Goddess Are Above&Precedes All To Exist
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Post by Kamisama on Jun 17, 2017 3:07:33 GMT
AianLacruzel i have been thinking the LGE effect is not like bishop ressurection or the j&s because those heal a great deal of hp j&s(fixed because it was confused for the bishop ressurection and in fact was even better than ressurection because it also heals mp and asobimo went no freaking way seriously??we got to nerf it nao!!!!before patching it for completely overtaking ressurection and went nerfhammer!!!) so i believe the LGE may more be like the cursed gears like cursed bangle which plays with both your mp and hp and gives an odd effects of some sort from the tweaking botth hp mp manipulation it has and the way it manipulates the hp and mp gives different and unique effects like (((infinite mp regen revival infinite hp regen and many more etc possibly based on law of alchemy equivalent exchange you need something to create sometjing fullmetal alchemist anime reference???something in a way that does not violate balance in asobimos point of view(((for LGE well they only revive at 1 HP anyways they could still die because boss can do this and that and even if it benefits some people they gonna be spending lots of time farming to get any usable amounts of it anyways and even then they are just like a ninja but ninjas that must work hard to get any useable amount of the artificial clones and 3 second item delay to even use it effectively for combat at all unlike official ninja class who makes clones effortlessly lmao and for the cursed bangle they trade hp and mp directly it seems fitting and balanced out so i think its alright looks like our work is done team lets get some lunch!!!))) thats probably their point of view on those during their time making those and see no reason to change or fix them i think XD))) people last year used it and not sure if your aware of them but please do look into the cursed spec equipment and tell me what you think of those and please do give us feedback when you got asobimo reply wether they just give you description of it or what not alright?thanks
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Kamisama
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The Omnipotent God And Goddess Are Above&Precedes All To Exist
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Post by Kamisama on Jun 18, 2017 20:00:50 GMT
AianLacruzel i have been thinking the LGE effect is not like bishop ressurection or the j&s because those heal a great deal of hp j&s(fixed because it was confused for the bishop ressurection and in fact was even better than ressurection because it also heals mp and asobimo went no freaking way seriously??we got to nerf it nao!!!!before patching it for completely overtaking ressurection and went nerfhammer!!!) so i believe the LGE may more be like the cursed gears like cursed bangle which plays with both your mp and hp and gives an odd effects of some sort from the tweaking botth hp mp manipulation it has and the way it manipulates the hp and mp gives different and unique effects like (((infinite mp regen revival infinite hp regen and many more etc possibly based on law of alchemy equivalent exchange you need something to create sometjing fullmetal alchemist anime reference???something in a way that does not violate balance in asobimos point of view(((for LGE well they only revive at 1 HP anyways they could still die because boss can do this and that and even if it benefits some people they gonna be spending lots of time farming to get any usable amounts of it anyways and even then they are just like a ninja but ninjas that must work hard to get any useable amount of the artificial clones and 3 second item delay to even use it effectively for combat at all unlike official ninja class who makes clones effortlessly lmao and for the cursed bangle they trade hp and mp directly it seems fitting and balanced out so i think its alright looks like our work is done team lets get some lunch!!!))) thats probably their point of view on those during their time making those and see no reason to change or fix them i think XD))) people last year used it and not sure if your aware of them but please do look into the cursed spec equipment and tell me what you think of those and please do give us feedback when you got asobimo reply wether they just give you description of it or what not alright?thanks from a bit of testing i think LGE hidden effect isnt revival but more like cancel your defeat during mp recovery kind of like aufsea al crysta doesnt say revival but cancels your defeat during ignite which is why there is no effect listed as revival in your continuous effect and would explain why you dont die when you take fatal hits with LGE or have aufsea with ignite ^^
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Kamisama
Member
The Omnipotent God And Goddess Are Above&Precedes All To Exist
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Post by Kamisama on Jun 18, 2017 20:06:57 GMT
AianLacruzel i have been thinking the LGE effect is not like bishop ressurection or the j&s because those heal a great deal of hp j&s(fixed because it was confused for the bishop ressurection and in fact was even better than ressurection because it also heals mp and asobimo went no freaking way seriously??we got to nerf it nao!!!!before patching it for completely overtaking ressurection and went nerfhammer!!!) so i believe the LGE may more be like the cursed gears like cursed bangle which plays with both your mp and hp and gives an odd effects of some sort from the tweaking botth hp mp manipulation it has and the way it manipulates the hp and mp gives different and unique effects like (((infinite mp regen revival infinite hp regen and many more etc possibly based on law of alchemy equivalent exchange you need something to create sometjing fullmetal alchemist anime reference???something in a way that does not violate balance in asobimos point of view(((for LGE well they only revive at 1 HP anyways they could still die because boss can do this and that and even if it benefits some people they gonna be spending lots of time farming to get any usable amounts of it anyways and even then they are just like a ninja but ninjas that must work hard to get any useable amount of the artificial clones and 3 second item delay to even use it effectively for combat at all unlike official ninja class who makes clones effortlessly lmao and for the cursed bangle they trade hp and mp directly it seems fitting and balanced out so i think its alright looks like our work is done team lets get some lunch!!!))) thats probably their point of view on those during their time making those and see no reason to change or fix them i think XD))) people last year used it and not sure if your aware of them but please do look into the cursed spec equipment and tell me what you think of those and please do give us feedback when you got asobimo reply wether they just give you description of it or what not alright?thanks from a bit of testing i think LGE hidden effect isnt revival but more like cancel your defeat during mp recovery kind of like aufsea al crysta doesnt say revival but cancels your defeat during ignite which is why there is no effect listed as revival in your continuous effect and would explain why you dont die when you take fatal hits with LGE or have aufsea with ignite ^^ there you go lge does not have to be a bug just because it saves you from death without saying revival in continuous effects because its hidden effects is just cancel your defeat just like aufsea during ignite does not say revival in continuous effects but it cancels your defeat so happy and debate resolved everyone? ^^
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Kamisama
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The Omnipotent God And Goddess Are Above&Precedes All To Exist
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Post by Kamisama on Jun 18, 2017 20:13:46 GMT
Updated guide to fix information on light green eggs to explain that it does not revive you(((the main reason why it has long been assumed to be a bug)))but rather it cancels your defeat in the same way aufsea al crysta does during ignite hopefully resolving all the freaking fuss and debate over the so called light green egg revival when its not revival but cancel defeat just like aufsea al crysta during ignite and hopefully the explanations have resolved and debunked the longstanding assumptions of it being a bug when its not alright ^^
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Kamisama
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The Omnipotent God And Goddess Are Above&Precedes All To Exist
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Post by Kamisama on Jun 18, 2017 20:18:43 GMT
Updated guide to fix information on light green eggs to explain that it does not revive you(((the main reason why it has long been assumed to be a bug)))but rather it cancels your defeat in the same way aufsea al crysta does during ignite hopefully resolving all the freaking fuss and debate over the so called light green egg revival when its not revival but cancel defeat just like aufsea al crysta during ignite and hopefully the explanations have resolved and debunked the longstanding assumptions of it being a bug when its not alright ^^ otherwise if it does revive you rather than just merely canceling your defeat it would have done a healing effect and sound like heal miniheal bishops ressurection etc and healed you about 50% of your hp that would have maybe make bishops ressurection seem like a joke which we know it doesnt(((which is why it still exists now)))but that if it does and has it would probably have been removed from the entire game altogether completely by asobimos most likely reaction to their bishops tarnished role as the ultimate ressurector at that point if it was like that you see XD
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AianLacruzel
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I'll wear my penalties as a trophy. Silenced because I can't admit I was wrong and contradict myself
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Post by AianLacruzel on Jun 19, 2017 21:31:00 GMT
also to make this interesting lets say there was a scenario LGE had never existed and high wizards wont ever get a skill that could cancel fatality of any kind(((ratecut,freecrit,atks above 95% resistance etc)))and is spammable just like LGE i would surely have abandoned the high wizard Mirage's 5s delay should give you an idea of Asobimo's opinion on fatal damage reduction spamming for HWs. ...i believe the LGE may more be like the cursed gears like cursed bangle which plays with both your mp and hp and gives an odd effects of some sort from the tweaking botth hp mp manipulation it has and the way it manipulates the hp and mp gives different and unique effects like (infinite mp regen revival infinite hp regen and many more etc possibly based on law of alchemy equivalent exchange you need something to create sometjing fullmetal alchemist anime reference???something in a way that does not violate balance in asobimos point of view for LGE well they only revive at 1 HP anyways they could still die because boss can do this and that and even if it benefits some people they gonna be spending lots of time farming to get any usable amounts of it anyways and even then they are just like a ninja but ninjas that must work hard to get any useable amount of the artificial clones and 3 second item delay to even use it effectively for combat at all unlike official ninja class who makes clones effortlessly lmao and for the cursed bangle they trade hp and mp directly it seems fitting and balanced out... please do look into the cursed spec equipment and tell me what you think of those... From what I understand, you are attempting to argue LGE effect as not a bug by portraying it as not OP because of give-and-take logic. First of all, bug = OP is incorrect. Bugs don't even hafta be useful at all. However, it is true that bugs tend to be OP because it is not subject to check and balance. So is LGE a OP? Using your examples: 1. Cursed Bangle Cost: requires 1 Equipment space. ideally requires 1 or more variable space. High Autoskill is preferred. (by variable, i refer to equips, crysta, al crysta, star ability and food) Effect: HP and MP switch CHANCE when HP is halved. Low~Medium chance at that. You hafta survive the next hits until it triggers. Comment: The equip space used to reduce MaxMP could've been used to increase DPS. The Autoskill Up variables could've been used to increase ATK/MATK. 2. Ninja Cloning Cost: A dedicated class and build. Effect: High Survivability unless afflicted with certain debuff. Comment: General DPS loss due to Class and build limitations. He could've been an SK nin or BS Sin instead. Low adaptability. Now let's take a look at LGE. 3. LGE Cost: 1 Equipment Set (-3s IDT, optional and used specially if not an EVA build) and is a consumable, therefore must be farmed (bought really). Take note that being a consumable should be taken as an advantage since it does take up any variable space. Effect: Guaranteed Survivability depending on player spam skill. Spamming is not required if the character has high Evasion. Restores MP. Comment: Can be used by ANY CLASS. More powerful than limited stock Guild Revita if vs a 1-hitting boss. So... is LGE OP? from a bit of testing i think LGE hidden effect isnt revival but more like cancel your defeat during mp recovery kind of like aufsea al crysta doesnt say revival but cancels your defeat during ignite which is why there is no effect listed as revival in your continuous effect and would explain why you dont die when you take fatal hits with LGE or have aufsea with ignite ^^ So again going by your previous argument of bug = OP and check-and-balance, you even quoted FMA on this, let's compare Aufsea and some other "Restores HP when defeated" variables. 1. Aufsea Al Cons: Requires 1 Al Crysta space. Ignition Limitation. I haven't used it but I assume it would only activate if your Ignition isn't recovering. 2. Brim Hat, etc. Cons: Requires 1 Equip space. Autoskill reliant. Not guaranteed. 3. <>Azimov Cons: Requires 1 Crysta space. Autoskill reliant. Not guaranteed. Comment: On 2 and 3, be aware that upping your Autoskill (purple lines, etc) means you won't be upping other things, like DPS (cyan lines, etc), as effectively. 4. LGE Cons: Must be farmed (bought really). Depending on your EVA, may require -3s ITD. Comment: If you notice, LGE only takes up Consumable space and is Guaranteed to revive depending on player skill. So based on adhering to check-and-balance, is LGE OP or not? Updated guide to fix information on light green eggs to explain that it does not revive you(((the main reason why it has long been assumed to be a bug)))but rather it cancels your defeat in the same way aufsea al crysta does during ignite hopefully resolving all the freaking fuss and debate over the so called light green egg revival when its not revival but cancel defeat just like aufsea al crysta during ignite and hopefully the explanations have resolved and debunked the longstanding assumptions of it being a bug when its not alright ^^ To summarize: 1. Although bugs don't have to be useful at all, since bugs do not subscribe to check-and-balance, they can be OP. 2. You attempted to disprove LGE's bugginess (I'm not saying it's a bug, it probably is though) by justifying that it's not OP. Rather than disputing that, I compared stuff head to head and will just let the readers decide what is unbalanced or not. 3. You re-classified LGE as not a Revive effect but a "Survive" or "Recover HP when defeated." To me this is not significant at all aka does not change anything. If you ask me,
1. a single item
...that makes...
2. any class and build
3. have close to 100% survival rate,
4. that does not take up variable space,
5. and without any huge drawbacks, especially when compared to outright death,
...is unbalanced.
6. Compared to the inaccessibility of Guild Revita, even SP Revita Ale, LGE is easily acquired.
7. Even more so, LGE works regardless of MaxHP. So it's in many ways superior to Guild Revita.
These imbalances and...
8. the way LGE does its hidden/bug effect
...makes me believe the revival/survival effect is a Bug. But this is only my opinion.Edit: changed significant to huge drawback.
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Post by NightBreeze on Jun 19, 2017 21:50:25 GMT
AianLacruzel LGE has in fact significant drawbacks: it wipes all buffs and leaves your hp at 1.
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AianLacruzel
Unable to Post
I'll wear my penalties as a trophy. Silenced because I can't admit I was wrong and contradict myself
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Post by AianLacruzel on Jun 19, 2017 21:53:42 GMT
AianLacruzel LGE has in fact significant drawbacks: it wipes all buffs and leaves your hp at 1. ...can't recall, is this during use or after "revive"?
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Post by pingrek on Jun 19, 2017 22:00:37 GMT
AianLacruzel LGE has in fact significant drawbacks: it wipes all buffs and leaves your hp at 1. ...can't recall, is this during use or after "revive"? It's after it "revives" you so your left extremely open to attacks afterwards
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Post by NightBreeze on Jun 19, 2017 22:10:03 GMT
AianLacruzel LGE has in fact significant drawbacks: it wipes all buffs and leaves your hp at 1. ...can't recall, is this during use or after "revive"? It's after the "revive". This makes it a lot easier to die again. Guild revita and the like, used at low hp to prevent death are superior. Unless your class/build can fight without buffs (and at 1 hp) and can spam LGE fast enough (not everybody has an item delay set), this consumable seems pretty useless. (but useful for running away from the enemy)
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AianLacruzel
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I'll wear my penalties as a trophy. Silenced because I can't admit I was wrong and contradict myself
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Post by AianLacruzel on Jun 19, 2017 22:13:57 GMT
...can't recall, is this during use or after "revive"? It's after the "revive". This makes it a lot easier to die again. Guild revita and the like, used at low hp to prevent death are superior. Unless your class/build can fight without buffs (and at 1 hp) and can spam LGE fast enough (not everybody has an item delay set), this consumable seems pretty useless. (but useful for running away from the enemy) Which classes have buffs that remain after death? Skills isn't my expertise. I'm referring to death by boss's 1hko every turn. I don't think Guild Revita performs as well on a glass cannon.
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Kamisama
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The Omnipotent God And Goddess Are Above&Precedes All To Exist
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Post by Kamisama on Jun 19, 2017 22:19:34 GMT
...can't recall, is this during use or after "revive"? It's after the "revive". This makes it a lot easier to die again. Guild revita and the like, used at low hp to prevent death are superior. Unless your class/build can fight without buffs (and at 1 hp) and can spam LGE fast enough (not everybody has an item delay set), this consumable seems pretty useless. (but useful for running away from the enemy) yep and as seen in the demonstration solo vids of gatekeeper and whitefox for the smartmage high wizard guide when they use fatal ratecut attacks that pretty much ignores the capped resistance set i spammed the lges for running away from boss aggro to rebuff grigori mirage etc before charging back into battle and continued fighting until victory so yes your right its practically useless if you cant fight at 1hp being quick enough to spam it without buffs unless to run away from boss aggro to rebuff and head back into battle provided you could spam it using item delay while the bosses attempts to keep rekilling you as you make your escape from their aggro ^^
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AianLacruzel
Unable to Post
I'll wear my penalties as a trophy. Silenced because I can't admit I was wrong and contradict myself
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Post by AianLacruzel on Jun 19, 2017 22:59:34 GMT
It's after the "revive". This makes it a lot easier to die again. Guild revita and the like, used at low hp to prevent death are superior. Unless your class/build can fight without buffs (and at 1 hp) and can spam LGE fast enough (not everybody has an item delay set), this consumable seems pretty useless. (but useful for running away from the enemy) yep and as seen in the demonstration solo vids of gatekeeper and whitefox for the smartmage high wizard guide when they use fatal ratecut attacks that pretty much ignores the capped resistance set i spammed the lges for running away from boss aggro to rebuff grigori mirage etc before charging back into battle and continued fighting until victory so yes your right its practically useless if you cant fight at 1hp being quick enough to spam it without buffs unless to run away from boss aggro to rebuff and head back into battle provided you could spam it using item delay while the bosses attempts to keep rekilling you as you make your escape from their aggro ^^ Think of a solo play scenario where a boss's 1 hit kills both pet and player, and the class can't resu or drain himself. the class and build is a glass cannon with -3s IDT. In this scenario, it breaks game balance. especially if that revive he needs is enough to kill the boss on a second hit. Anyways, I was just posting here regarding LGE. I think it's bug, I stated why. You think it's not, and stated your reasons. Whether it really is a bug or not really depends on the people who can read LGE's effect script. There's an area bug in Inneban Ruins, common sense says it's a bug. Maybe it's not. To me and many others, common sense says LGE is a bug. Maybe it's not. Only those who check the game script would really know. Just to be clear, I'm fine with bug use, as long as people report it as they go.
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Post by Zensui_X on Jun 19, 2017 23:10:49 GMT
Bug or not the fact is, it is there and does that weird effect. Abuse it or leave it, is just anyone's choice.
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Post by NightBreeze on Jun 19, 2017 23:14:12 GMT
AianLacruzel off topic, but what's that area bug you wrote about? Never heard of it.
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