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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 13:11:23 GMT
update: added queing info. I'd like to add that the counters don't really negate the damage. When one counter triggers, you get healed for the amount of damage that you were supposed to take.
This means that if a counter triggers when you take 5,000 damage, you take 5,000 damage and get healed for the same amount, so it gives that feeling that you negated the damage. Now it gets fun when two or more counters trigger. When two counters trigger with the same amount of damage, you'll take 5,000 damage and get healed for 5,000 per counter, so you get healed for 10,000. If three counters trigger, you get healed for 15,000 and so on.
However, this also means that you won't get healed if you take 0 damage, such as if you have clones up or if you have Stone Skin or Solid Skin on. This effect won't show on your logs nor show a green number indicating the amount of HP you just got healed with. You'll just have to keep an eye on your HP when it happens.
The heal effect is what I love the most about the damage negation counters, as it can save a lot of potions and ease your mind knowing your toon won't die. My enchanter rocks the set and although I kill slower than DPS focused enchanters, I enjoy every counter that hits. I can leave him in the middle of a swarm of Nommars with just Draw and Magic Barrier and not die until Draw expires (or when RNG works against me; my autoskill+% is still low).
One more thing to note is that it won't protect you from hits that go beyond your current HP. Suppose you have 100 HP left and take 101 damage, even if theoretically you have 100% counter chance, you will die.
*This info is from master Tyranull (and no, Idk where how he found out about it) and not from my own research.
Edit: I'll just add two good specs to use with this set: Cursed Bangle and Actsin Guard. Actsin Guard provides autoskill and reflect up by VIT. Click here for Cursed Bangle's effects. For enemies that die easily, Actsin works great. However, as an enchanter Cursed Bangle provides me more survivability especially when faced with hard hitters or an overwhelming number of aggressive mobs because it synergizes with our ability to regenerate MP every time we get hit.
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Post by bikini on Jan 18, 2017 13:17:53 GMT
there are magic damage on atack.
Im using servant magic( int,vit, agi and purple) and negate mix, similar as bishop, just lower matck.But depends on mob even dont need heal,1650hp bless and about 150mp. Also future servant auto skils work on atack,def and eva.
You can use dclaw2 or hcb for more survival.
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Post by Crysta| on Jan 19, 2017 11:17:11 GMT
Even though the focus is on playing technique and not build I think this belongs in the "Guide" section.
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AianLacruzel
Unable to Post
I'll wear my penalties as a trophy. Silenced because I can't admit I was wrong and contradict myself
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Post by AianLacruzel on Mar 19, 2017 22:03:34 GMT
Even though the focus is on playing technique and not build I think this belongs in the "Guide" section. You're right. And thus I make the request. I'd be sure to put them in the right section next time. Ryukengan
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AianLacruzel
Unable to Post
I'll wear my penalties as a trophy. Silenced because I can't admit I was wrong and contradict myself
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Post by AianLacruzel on Mar 19, 2017 22:19:51 GMT
The problem with negate damage set is that they dont stack and have diminishing returns. E.g. at 30% rate with 3 autoskills you get 65.7% proc rate (you get hit 3.5 times every 10 attacks) At 50% rate with 3 autoskills you get 87.5% proc rate (you get hit 1.25 times every 10 attacks. If a mob attacks every second and you tank 3 of them, you will get hit once every second with 30% rate (every 3 seconds if you have 50%). Now since you have low dps from the set you kill slower and hence take more hits from mobs. You might end up spending the same number of healing potions but instead of killing every 5seconds with a dps gear, you kill them every 20seconds with a negate set. In Iruna, grinding faster is always better. If you really want this to be effective in terms of proc rate, I would think you will need to have >65% auto rate (>95% proc rate total). Which is why enchanters will have a better chance at meeting this requirement. Depending on your target mob. The ways this will not be effective is: 1. you run out of mobs often. 2. you one-shot them anyway and your mp recovery takes 0s. 3. you take a very long time to recover HP. Why? Because you're forced to wait. That's the only time DPS comes to play. Otherwise, when u'r chain-targeting mobs, DPS = Mob HP. And just to be clear, this is not a thread regarding Negate Counter set. How that set performs outside of this farm/grind technique is covered by another thread. I noticed this late but the idea that Negate Counters don't stack is completely wrong. @ewpeople mentioned this on a previous post. You can actually heal up to 2x the damage received because of the very fact that 3x Negate Counters can process at the same time. Now, regarding the misconception that Tag Farming/Grinding has diminishing returns, that doesn't make sense at all. 4 mobs being countered > 1 mob being countered. There's a reason Asobimo put a cap on mob acquisition, if they didn't, counters will outdamage any non-counter build vs multiple mobs. Imagine 1 person tagging all the mobs in an area.
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