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Post by rahovart on Oct 2, 2016 18:23:15 GMT
I know theirs alot of info on these two armors here already but coming from the master tanks ^^ which one is better for pure tanking? Deceiver looks pretty good but wouldn't lichs def stats make it better for the job?
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DarkTazX
Member
"This is where all Ends"
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Post by DarkTazX on Oct 2, 2016 20:56:20 GMT
I would go for Licht armor up and Licht is getting another up soon
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HaT®eD
Member
Justice in this world is just a bunch of principles made by those with power just to suit them
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Post by HaT®eD on Oct 6, 2016 0:09:25 GMT
simply put it as:
licht= resistance
deceiver=rate cut
different armor, different uses... Gotta collect em' all~
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 0:20:13 GMT
I think Bellow of Order might be better than Licht for resistance set. Deceiver is just for rate cut and, well, the HP boost o.o/
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Post by AizenSou [Quitting] on Oct 6, 2016 18:45:06 GMT
I think Bellow of Order might be better than Licht for resistance set. Deceiver is just for rate cut and, well, the HP boost o.o/ It's no might be o.o it is indeed better in all aspect than any other armor, seriously? Resistant+12% (better than 7% of Licht's) Bit Licht has Delay (Delay -0.5%) Skill Delay -1st (much better than 0.5 though doesn't reducing item delay) But I need damage (Usually go for Ira or Heinrich) ATK up by STR (better than +12% (14% up) of Ira or 10% up (14% re up) of Heinrich) But Heinrich got DMG cut (DMG cut when hp 25% or lower) DMG cut chance by defense (at least works even when your hp is 100%) But Deceiver got HP Well that's what Bellow doesn't have xD And also to count Magic evasion of Ira, Heal reward of Heinrich, Rate cut of Deceiver, MDEF and DEF of Licht, Item delay of Saltus (though idk what's this armor use for pally rather than the small atk boost HP and item delay) Well better to geared with all optional for different purpose of fighting different bosses in case the one armor is failing to do it's job (preparation won't hurt but budget surely hurts a lot) The Power of Mins (~*o*)~ P.S : oh I welcome all that minus and willing to sacrifing all ATK MATK DEF MDEF HP MP EVA HIT in return for the precious skill delay. I don't mind having -10% ATK&MATK just to get -0.6s of skill delay *-* but your case is not in my case :v |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 23:08:29 GMT
AizenSou [Quitting] Too much irrelevant info XD. First look at OP's question:
which one is better for pure tanking? Deceiver looks pretty good but wouldn't lichs def stats make it better for the job?
OP asked which one is better for tanking. When he mentioned def stats, I thought I had to add Bellow in cuz it has better resistance. I also said Deceiver is for rate cut and HP which makes the armor a 'situational' one. You only use rate cut gears on bosses that does a lot of HP% attacks. Well anyway:
When do you need item delay as a pally? 1) for soloing and 2) if your healer can't spam resu and heal is low, so you spam Onigiris and Sp. Revita Ales, etc. For tanking, I don't think you really need -item delay except for the latter situation.
Ira is bad for tanking. That -melee r will hurt @-@. Sure you have a 5-7% chance of evading a magic attack, but you'll take 25% more melee damage. I guess you could use Ira against Shojo and other bosses that does magic attacks mostly.
Both are damage cut. The only difference is Heinrich has 100% trigger chance below 25% HP and Bellow works by "chance" until you die. It works whatever HP you have. But the damage you receive has to be lower than your current HP otherwise, it will kill you (this is true also for Heinrich's dmg cut).
If you're tanking, you'd be spamming Guardian to keep hate and HP increases that damage as well as the hate you get. This is definitely useful, but you have to choose between "taking less damage" or "having more HP and dealing more damage." This may be a hard decision to make, but that should be settled once you know what the boss you're gonna farm does.
How much -sd does a pally need? Afaik, you only need a lot of -sd for buffs and such, but for spamming Guardian you don't need much. Bellow/Licht should provide just enough -sd.
Anyway, that should keep the thread on the 'tanking' subject. I agree with the rest of the post XD.
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Post by AizenSou [Quitting] on Oct 6, 2016 23:43:36 GMT
AizenSou [Quitting] Too much irrelevant info XD. First look at OP's question:
which one is better for pure tanking? Deceiver looks pretty good but wouldn't lichs def stats make it better for the job?
When do you need item delay as a pally? 1) for soloing and 2) if your healer can't spam resu and heal is low, so you spam Onigiris and Sp. Revita Ales, etc. For tanking, I don't think you really need -item delay except for the latter situation.
Ira is bad for tanking. That -melee r will hurt @-@. Sure you have a 5-7% chance of evading a magic attack, but you'll take 25% more melee damage. I guess you could use Ira against Shojo and other bosses that does magic attacks mostly.
Both are damage cut. The only difference is Heinrich has 100% trigger chance below 25% HP and Bellow works by "chance" until you die. It works whatever HP you have. But the damage you receive has to be lower than your current HP otherwise, it will kill you (this is true also for Heinrich's dmg cut).
If you're tanking, you'd be spamming Guardian to keep hate and HP increases that damage as well as the hate you get. This is definitely useful, but you have to choose between "taking less damage" or "having more HP and dealing more damage." This may be a hard decision to make, but that should be settled once you know what the boss you're gonna farm does.
How much -sd does a pally need? Afaik, you only need a lot of -sd for buffs and such, but for spamming Guardian you don't need much. Bellow/Licht should provide just enough -sd.
Anyway, that should keep the thread on the 'tanking' subject. I agree with the rest of the post XD. It's irrelevant Ikr xD I just stated what bellow could do against all the possibilities (when people ask why the answer is the bellow one) Ignore the post script that's like I said in my case o.o (as a mins) not in your case (as a pally) |
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Post by ∙°Emi°∙ [lurking on forum] on Oct 6, 2016 23:49:11 GMT
For me, guardian spam, tanking in pt, and def/resistance set is a whole different story. I used to focus on hp set for guardian spam, but then i realized atk affects the guardian dmg more than i thought they would. So, i use bellow of order and monty for guardian spam. (Also, although you only need -0.5 sd for spam, it's nice to be able to buff myself quickly) My full atk set vs. full hp set isnt much different in dmg either. Maybe even a bit lower in fact :/ But when it comes to tanking...i need to be able to keep hate. i like to focus more on hate gears than -sd, resistance etc. Since if you're in a pt, you'll most likey to be in a pt with bishop and they'll most likely be able to keep you alive. and its really unlikely for you to die just because you dont have +resistance in a pt... i mean...bishop's heal..o.o. Now for def/resistance set. Personally, i use bellow of order, and also monty. but i'll have to agree deceiver up or licht reup which is coming out soon sounds pretty nice too. Anyways, back to the topic o.o When licht reup comes out, it's going to have +8% melee/magic resistance AND also def/mdef by lvl. It also has +8% hp which licht no up/up didnt have any hp bonus before. And lastly, -0.7 sd which is just perfect for guardian spam. When deceiver up comes out, it'll have +16% hp, which is the same as no up. +17% rate cut and +14% mdef. (Also -17% mp cost for when guardian spam takes up too much mp o.o) Imo, i think licht will be better in case of def/mdef, but for more hp and rate cut, i think deceiver is pretty nice as well. But this is just my opinion, everyone has different opinions  |
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Post by lacs on Oct 6, 2016 23:57:39 GMT
i heard that there will soon be an even better armor for pallies soon, tho i dont have the info yet  |
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Post by AizenSou [Quitting] on Oct 7, 2016 19:40:19 GMT
For me, guardian spam, tanking in pt, and def/resistance set is a whole different story. I used to focus on hp set for guardian spam, but then i realized atk affects the guardian dmg more than i thought they would. So, i use bellow of order and monty for guardian spam. (Also, although you only need -0.5 sd for spam, it's nice to be able to buff myself quickly) My full atk set vs. full hp set isnt much different in dmg either. Maybe even a bit lower in fact :/ But when it comes to tanking...i need to be able to keep hate. i like to focus more on hate gears than -sd, resistance etc. Since if you're in a pt, you'll most likey to be in a pt with bishop and they'll most likely be able to keep you alive. and its really unlikely for you to die just because you dont have +resistance in a pt... i mean...bishop's heal..o.o. Now for def/resistance set. Personally, i use bellow of order, and also monty. but i'll have to agree deceiver up or licht reup which is coming out soon sounds pretty nice too. Anyways, back to the topic o.o When licht reup comes out, it's going to have +8% melee/magic resistance AND also def/mdef by lvl. It also has +8% hp which licht no up/up didnt have any hp bonus before. And lastly, -0.7 sd which is just perfect for guardian spam. When deceiver up comes out, it'll have +16% hp, which is the same as no up. +17% rate cut and +14% mdef. (Also -17% mp cost for when guardian spam takes up too much mp o.o) Imo, i think licht will be better in case of def/mdef, but for more hp and rate cut, i think deceiver is pretty nice as well. But this is just my opinion, everyone has different opinions Why not with servant o.o (they can spamming heal as well shifting hate to pally) Nevermind xd they can't revive the dead P.S : Personally as a mins I hate bishop to spamming resu on me because what I need is a heal for me to be able to sing and resu cannot do that Nevermind this script too |
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Post by ∙°Emi°∙ [lurking on forum] on Oct 7, 2016 23:01:19 GMT
Why not with servant o.o (they can spamming heal as well shifting hate to pally) Nevermind xd they can't revive the dead P.S : Personally as a mins I hate bishop to spamming resu on me because what I need is a heal for me to be able to sing and resu cannot do that Nevermind this script too Servant o.o i love servants xD i can grind without worrying about keeping hate from other pt members. but you see..servants are very...very..rare o.o also, i think its likely that they'll be able to keep pt alive with their heal even if they dont have resu. except those few cases when mobs spam aoe and healer is only focusing their heal on tank.. btw, i'm pretty sure i would agree with you on that if i was a mins ^^ i have a nub mins.. .__. |
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Post by AizenSou [Quitting] on Oct 8, 2016 8:02:29 GMT
Why not with servant o.o (they can spamming heal as well shifting hate to pally) Nevermind xd they can't revive the dead P.S : Personally as a mins I hate bishop to spamming resu on me because what I need is a heal for me to be able to sing and resu cannot do that Nevermind this script too Servant o.o i love servants xD i can grind without worrying about keeping hate from other pt members. but you see..servants are very...very..rare o.o also, i think its likely that they'll be able to keep pt alive with their heal even if they dont have resu. except those few cases when mobs spam aoe and healer is only focusing their heal on tank.. btw, i'm pretty sure i would agree with you on that if i was a mins ^^ i have a nub mins.. .__. Yea ;-; poor us mins |
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Post by rahovart on Oct 16, 2016 21:12:12 GMT
Ya I got saltus,lich and deceiver actually but I'm still pretty new to a class that does tank so I wanted yals pro ensite ^^. I'm actually a bk but no one seems to talk about the pros and cons of the tanking armors over there so thank you pallys XD.
Ironic about yall talking about servants I used to have one before I replaced him with my bk. Being a servant is a true labor of love. It's really hard and IMO a really boring class plus no atk skills equals really painful.
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Post by 9ball on Jan 11, 2017 4:59:46 GMT
licht is still good for 1 thing tho... cancelling the delay debuff from bosses with licht's own delay buff  |
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