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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 9:39:02 GMT
area attack: as the name suggest, even you're out of aggro, you will still affected. no difference even you're far. i dont know about other people but personally, i dont solo or farm boss every login till the next logout. magic sword probably the worst thing to use if you're making a damager. 2 or 2.5atk per int plus 1 or 1.5 atk per dex. max dex/int & your damage is at its cap while throwing can still benefit str after max int & dex for dmg. not mentioning later on throwing deals triple attack. tanker or damager, choose one. unless you got unlimited points, your 100% capability will be distributed evenly so you're neither a badass tanker nor a badass damager. all rounder indeed but that makes you another average enchanter. This is a delayed reply to this but in regards to how maxing Int and Dex would have your damage be at cap and how throwing has more stats to add for atk: Atk is only used for maybe like 15-20% of your damage for Dex builds. Any small amount of atk from str would not make much difference on your damage overall. Also if you are a Dex build you run out of meaningful stats to put points in for DPS pretty quick regardless of whether its throwing or magic sword you are using. So you will end up pretty tanky anyways without sacrificing damage. Throwing is more for CRT builds. wait a minute. this is for me or kimmy? im a dps. yes i use throwing. yes im more on the ATK side. kimmy is a tank.
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 12, 2014 18:20:03 GMT
Sorry it was you syerin haha. Oh also for magic sword its 2.5 atk from Int and 1.5 from Dex. I can see a throwing atk build being pretty good in the future because of the awesome throwing weapon stats. Sadly while the crit rate +30 is nice you would want higher CRT anyways for more damage so it ends up not so useful unless you are just using CRT for your hit rate stat.
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tasm
Member
Dead bones for sale... ~
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Post by tasm on Mar 12, 2014 18:53:56 GMT
I totally agree with Syerin, here. The ideal build is when points are spent to maximize a particulr goal. If splitting your points to multiple objectives, you're weakening your character unecessarily. Dmg or Tank, best to choose one. 'Cause ur tank won't be able to tank the same as a character (like mine) who maxes int/vit and builds total defensive xtals, provokes, ewuipments, etc.... Or your dmger won't be as b@dass as a character who maxes int/crt and carries purely atk maximizing xtals and equipments. (You can compensate for survival through other means than agi when enchanter, use defense/vit.)
I agree also that ranged dps is ideal. Magic bows or throwing knives and spare the bishop some trouble. (Giving the bishop trouble can lead to being excluded from parties... jst saying if s1 can dps as well as you without the xtra cost in time from requiring to heal more than just the tank, that person is preferable.)
Anyway builds imo are int/crt/vit or int/agi/crt. Magic bow or throwing knife.
The +30crt rate knives aren't so ideal imo. Before I was running a 90crt build, which gave 70% crt rate with knife. Therefore, I always crt. What I find is that the crt took from the vit/int. So, I disregarded the crt entirely.
At my 184, I can 256 int/vit 50agi. So, assuming I have proper agi (146-ish), the build would instead be with 90crt... 256 int 70 vit 146 agi 90 crt. Or any combination of the 326 points available between int and vit.
It's just a meh build imo...
Why go... 326 between int/vit , 146 agi, 90 crt... When you can still hit well and tank at... 256 int 256 vit 50 agi? With sinbad (eventual third upgrade), you're only going to need 110 agi tops for max aspd.
I also find that the later knives... a lot later... are pretty awesome, but until we get knives like Jupiter, it doesn't seem the best decision.... Anyway, dmgers are better off using Fabellum (soon to be replaced by Saul Astell and Artemis, am guessing) for the additional hit which does nearly equal dmg to our atk.
Which could be up to a consistent 4k dmg... depending on one's crt and crt rate.
And even still, for the agi build (dmger) you have the contradictory weapons such as grail or spec. bow which could have a potentially decent dmg output....
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 12, 2014 22:41:51 GMT
I'm saying that adding STR with throwing would be an insignificant boost in damage for them. Also at the moment a CRT build won't do much more than a Dex build if any at all and Dex is only a tiny boost in damage,a really tiny boost. So adding survival stats would be more beneficial overall.
Also enchanters won't give bishops a hard time at all whether you are melee or ranged.
Flabellum and Dia Espada are the best weapons though. I think Dia has a slight edge though.
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tasm
Member
Dead bones for sale... ~
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Post by tasm on Mar 12, 2014 23:06:25 GMT
I'm saying that adding STR with throwing would be an insignificant boost in damage for them. Also at the moment a CRT build won't do much more than a Dex build if any at all and Dex is only a tiny boost in damage,a really tiny boost. So adding survival stats would be more beneficial overall. Also enchanters won't give bishops a hard time at all whether you are melee or ranged. Flabellum and Dia Espada are the best weapons though. I think Dia has a slight edge though. I've actually yet to see an ideal dex build for dps. But all in all, I agree the dmg is similar to a crt build. Dex actually should become slightly stronger, though. Personally, I'm not too keen on adding str. If pure dps it would be the third/fourth stat for throwing knives. Survivability is useful, but focusing on that while also focusing on dps splits the points too much. You'll have a great dps that way, but it won't the absolute possible strongest in terms of numbers. Edit: I've actually already calculated the absolute strongest (well not absolute, there is one throwing knife that has an additional effect which I don't understand... triple attack, I think) dps build for enchanter. It would be int/dex/crt, fourth stat vit with about 70 agi, and using magic bow. Probs ring of magic swordsman s mezzaluna, scarlet ribbon s an additional atk xtal, last 2 slots magic atk % xtals.... I try leading ppl to vit rather than agi because it's more useful a statistic on enchanter than most realize. ps: forgot spellboost, that comes from a coin pet skill
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 12, 2014 23:53:51 GMT
Yeah VIT is the better survival stat. When we get the 20% ASPD buff I'm going to reset my AGI for max ASPD, I think around 110. Which makes me think Scarlet ribbon is a bad choice since it only saves you like 40 points. My build isn't pure DPS but I doubt I could get much more damage out of stats at this point anyways.
Current stats: 256 INT 160(should be 135) AGI 100 DEX 41(should be 66) VIT. I'm only adding DEX for hit. When I get two mezzas and a slot lotus seeds I'll be doing damage comparable to the really high DPS classes.
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tasm
Member
Dead bones for sale... ~
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Post by tasm on Mar 13, 2014 0:15:15 GMT
Scarlet ribbon is curious because as far as I am aware, it hasn't been tested for crt rate loss. I know it cuts hit by around 100+ (which has very little effect), but as for crt.. no idea :/
So... Idk how much more crt xactly is necessary for the 70% rate when using it. Max crt is 95% rate, though. Schwartz can offset 10% more... (But am thinking new Sianas' armor is best atm)
Ribbon's biggest problem imo is that aside from helping one reach max aspd, it's useless. And, when relying on it, you can't really ever unequip it for other additional equipment. Can eventually slot it with an additional magic atk xtal, though.
100% aspd is 120 points, though... So, that's really its only merit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 0:34:06 GMT
its a different beast. you're building for future magic blade buff so you'll be granted aspd+20%. im building for future cadal alexio & extend. i have my autoskill maximize with extend (at level 205, a hairband alone could already deal serious autoskill), and my damage enhanced with cadal alexio. dps dont increase damage. we multiply it. dont judge by damage per hit, its lousy. count the total.
psst: dealt 3k crit, 10k additional damage, 4k enchant weapon damage to high-HP colon @ maze f15. thats a whooping 17k. 1 earthquake = 2 enchanter hit. thats 26k vs 34k.
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tasm
Member
Dead bones for sale... ~
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Post by tasm on Mar 13, 2014 3:25:27 GMT
Yup. You're really the only one who I've seen do a strong dps. I always say it could be stronger... Still, no one bothers to build them right. Must have posted so many times in both forums. I think we'll have to blame Moko's youtube video here....
Rant aside, that's the true strength of enchanter. See, we can have 4 additional attacks maximum with four equipments (1 each). If each hits 2k that's 8k dmg, 3k that's 12k dmg per hit. Weapon skills by itself can hit 4 - 7k (I belive, with matk% xtals) dmg. So, 8k+4k = 12k dmg per hit at the absolute lowest end. Ontop of this we have the base hit and with crt that can be 4k+ maximum on average. So, now, we're at 16k per hit at the lowest end of enchanter dmg.
Two hits to an earthquake as said above => 32k dmg. Enchanter out dmgs high wiz if built well. Enchanter also has versatility and party buffs that are sometimes vital (origin, 20% aspd buff gives +3 range for 30 minutes). When a boss negates physical dmg, we have magic. Boss negating magical dmg, we've got physical.
Now, at he highest end of our dmg we're looking at a 23k dmg per hit. Enough said....
However, for example the magic bow build (can be replicated with msword even tknife) focuses on cap int, crt, and dex. If it pulls near 23kdmg per hit without utilizing spellboost, imagine with? 40% more magic dmg, you could see a 30k dmg per hit. (20k @ lowest end)....
Cadal Alexia (hopefully I'm spelling it well) stacks with spellboost for an even larger modifier to the % magic dmg increase for yet even more dmg. Extend just gives stability....
Then there are some other skills which we're overlooking, (mostly that rune hit or whatever it's called) which might not be any good but definitely will hit for higher with a dps build.
Yet, even though I've tried before to get people to realize this, most all (I think can say all, lol) try to build enchanter as halfway tank or full tank. It drives me nuts because before Moko's video I was already building that sort of enchanter, and I feel that I'd lose something if I change my mind now 'cause everyone is doing the same thing. However, now that I mostly fully understand this class, it's slightly annoying that none utilize its potential (or desire to).
I definitely have no aspiration for a dps enchanter, honestly. But ppl pass this class up as tank when it could compete for highest (or at least most versatile) dps in game, easy.
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 13, 2014 5:36:30 GMT
Its easily highest survival DPS that's for sure.
I do about 3.5k Mana Waves and if its not against a weakness about 4.5-5.5k enchant weapon damage and about 1.5k with my regular attack. So like... 15k top without weaknesses and spell boost. With weaknesses about 18k tops. With spell boost its a lot... Also since I have higher DEX it lasts longer.
Main problem with Moko was the weird way he was built and the crappy gear. I do agree that one should decide on being more tanky or being more of a DPS as an enchanter but I think tanks need enough in either CRT or DEX to consistently hit stuff without gear except throwing so they can keep hate easier.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 10:27:16 GMT
Yup. You're really the only one who I've seen do a strong dps. I always say it could be stronger... Still, no one bothers to build them right. Must have posted so many times in both forums. I think we'll have to blame Moko's youtube video here.... Rant aside, that's the true strength of enchanter. See, we can have 4 additional attacks maximum with four equipments (1 each). If each hits 2k that's 8k dmg, 3k that's 12k dmg per hit. Weapon skills by itself can hit 4 - 7k (I belive, with matk% xtals) dmg. So, 8k+4k = 12k dmg per hit at the absolute lowest end. Ontop of this we have the base hit and with crt that can be 4k+ maximum on average. So, now, we're at 16k per hit at the lowest end of enchanter dmg. Two hits to an earthquake as said above => 32k dmg. Enchanter out dmgs high wiz if built well. Enchanter also has versatility and party buffs that are sometimes vital (origin, 20% aspd buff gives +3 range for 30 minutes). When a boss negates physical dmg, we have magic. Boss negating magical dmg, we've got physical. Now, at he highest end of our dmg we're looking at a 23k dmg per hit. Enough said.... However, for example the magic bow build (can be replicated with msword even tknife) focuses on cap int, crt, and dex. If it pulls near 23kdmg per hit without utilizing spellboost, imagine with? 40% more magic dmg, you could see a 30k dmg per hit. (20k @ lowest end).... Cadal Alexia (hopefully I'm spelling it well) stacks with spellboost for an even larger modifier to the % magic dmg increase for yet even more dmg. Extend just gives stability.... Then there are some other skills which we're overlooking, (mostly that rune hit or whatever it's called) which might not be any good but definitely will hit for higher with a dps build. Yet, even though I've tried before to get people to realize this, most all (I think can say all, lol) try to build enchanter as halfway tank or full tank. It drives me nuts because before Moko's video I was already building that sort of enchanter, and I feel that I'd lose something if I change my mind now 'cause everyone is doing the same thing. However, now that I mostly fully understand this class, it's slightly annoying that none utilize its potential (or desire to). I definitely have no aspiration for a dps enchanter, honestly. But ppl pass this class up as tank when it could compete for highest (or at least most versatile) dps in game, easy. Then there are some other skills which we're overlooking, (mostly that rune hit or whatever it's called) which might not be any good but definitely will hit for higher with a dps build.
*lolol may not be any good? that's the single most needed skill for low-hp weakling me which always killed by poison. illness hit: transfer status ailment to the foe while doing fairly high damage depending on weapon refining value, atk & matk. grant 30 second resistant to the status transferred. skill level 1 transfers paralysis, poison & blind. skill level 2 adds freeze & burn to the list.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 10:34:06 GMT
Its easily highest survival DPS that's for sure. I do about 3.5k Mana Waves and if its not against a weakness about 4.5-5.5k enchant weapon damage and about 1.5k with my regular attack. So like... 15k top without weaknesses and spell boost. With weaknesses about 18k tops. With spell boost its a lot... Also since I have higher DEX it lasts longer. Main problem with Moko was the weird way he was built and the crappy gear. I do agree that one should decide on being more tanky or being more of a DPS as an enchanter but I think tanks need enough in either CRT or DEX to consistently hit stuff without gear except throwing so they can keep hate easier. so based on your damage, 3.5k + 5.5k + 1.5k right? when counted again, thats 10,500 damages based on my calculator. 10.5k. not 15k.
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 14, 2014 3:51:21 GMT
Sorry I have Ciel haha so its 3.5k+3.5k+5.5k+1.5k. So 14k tops without any elemental weakness. I'll have to check on that colon you mentioned to compare. What in the world was the 10k additional damage from for you?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2014 5:01:05 GMT
hm. your ciel.. one of the hardest thing to get in life. i cant count how many tormentas hit the ground but thats 6hours with a high wizard, they drop 2 each & im left empty handed.
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 14, 2014 5:13:24 GMT
I checked my damage on those colons you mentioned. I do 4k mama waves on them and like 5.5-6k enchant weapon. Idk if I wanna know my spell boost damage haha.
Tormentors suck for DEX builds. So much EVA...
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