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Post by ishayel on Sept 22, 2020 19:22:56 GMT
hello again. If you want best dmg, dnt use too much cast time for multicast. It dealt lowered dmg if u cast too fast. Try keep u cast about 4.5sec to use assault buff. Example of my hw: 5sec cast = 4m 4sec cast = 3.8m 3sec = 3.6m 2sec = 3.1m And now...1sec = 2.5m XD The damage falls much more in lesser times. Seems like ur dps actually increase 4 sec cast 3.8m dmg (3.8m dmg / 4 sec = 950k dmg dps) 1 sec cast 2.5m dmg (2.5m / 1 sec = 2.5m dps) Make sense? Have you counted the fact that others stats lowers when you up cast speed ? Give that give cast speed , don't give as much matk or element magic. have tested with same matk, same element magic, and different cast times ( 400 cast spd, 650 cast spd, 998 cast speed ) , my dmg was exactly the same ( avg coz it fluctuate a lot )
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Post by senoragi on Sept 22, 2020 20:59:22 GMT
Seems like ur dps actually increase 4 sec cast 3.8m dmg (3.8m dmg / 4 sec = 950k dmg dps) 1 sec cast 2.5m dmg (2.5m / 1 sec = 2.5m dps) Make sense? Have you counted the fact that others stats lowers when you up cast speed ? Give that give cast speed , don't give as much matk or element magic. have tested with same matk, same element magic, and different cast times ( 400 cast spd, 650 cast spd, 998 cast speed ) , my dmg was exactly the same ( avg coz it fluctuate a lot ) for the test, I used pt. wisdom + quick from bish (and also all bish buffs including matk) solo version vs ibrie (5sec cast) = 4m pt only w/ mins vs ibrie (lot of matk and 3sec cast) = 4.5m pt with mins and bish full buff (insane matk, 1sec cast, it looks like my magic ninja...but) = 4.3m I farmed Ibrie for almost 1 hour to get a solid average. so I removed all 5 fluency abi and all 7 relic green (rip 64% cast time) then the imp went back to 3sec again and that's it, 5m damage
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Post by senoragi on Sept 22, 2020 21:14:37 GMT
Seems like ur dps actually increase 4 sec cast 3.8m dmg (3.8m dmg / 4 sec = 950k dmg dps) 1 sec cast 2.5m dmg (2.5m / 1 sec = 2.5m dps) Make sense? Have you counted the fact that others stats lowers when you up cast speed ? Give that give cast speed , don't give as much matk or element magic. have tested with same matk, same element magic, and different cast times ( 400 cast spd, 650 cast spd, 998 cast speed ) , my dmg was exactly the same ( avg coz it fluctuate a lot ) Translated and interpreted from jp wiki: •Imperial Ray Lv.2: When you use it after the 4 large element magic, you will gain "Law of Element" meter starting at 10 and "Force" buff which lasts 12 sec. LoE disappear when Force buff ends. LoE meter is increased by casting a element magic+imperial combo within "Force" buff duration. Successful combo will also increase LoE meter. Max at 100. For each 10 LoE increase you will gain +5%? element magic dmg. If you hit a monster with the correct elemental advantage, you gain 20 LoE instead of 10. •Force Boost Give "Power Up" buff, lasts 30 sec. Can only be casted if you have LoE. Strengthen 4 element magic by +50%?, decrease cast time and mp cost. After buff ends, you will get "Recast" buff for 60 sec. Cannot activate force boost until Recast buff ends. •Multicast Double cast any large magic and imperial ray. Damage decreases when you cast magic too fast.
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Post by Aza on Sept 22, 2020 22:17:31 GMT
I can see my damage decrease when my cspd go up from 524 to 574, from average damage of 1.16m to 1.08m per imperial ray. I tried slower but no increase.
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Post by Aza on Sept 22, 2020 22:24:49 GMT
My equipments have -79% cast speed. What I modified is fluency abi, I add/remove 1 fluency abi. Buff I used: Mirage, Grigori, Multicast, Spellboost, Mana Stock (3)
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Post by senoragi on Sept 25, 2020 18:35:52 GMT
I can see my damage decrease when my cspd go up from 524 to 574, from average damage of 1.16m to 1.08m per imperial ray. I tried slower but no increase. Hello Aza and guys, I searched on internet (in Japanese) until I found out about multicast. here you will see a graph of reduced multicast damage. I didn't understand it very well, but it looks like something like: from 0 to 100% of cast time you only lose 1% of damage, but after 100% of cast time you start to lose 1% of damage for every 5% of cast time . www.ramiel-iruna.net/entry/2018/12/12/222106
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°Malice°
Member
Do you breath in dreams?
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Post by °Malice° on Sept 25, 2020 20:04:12 GMT
I can see my damage decrease when my cspd go up from 524 to 574, from average damage of 1.16m to 1.08m per imperial ray. I tried slower but no increase. Hello Aza and guys, I searched on internet (in Japanese) until I found out about multicast. here you will see a graph of reduced multicast damage. I didn't understand it very well, but it looks like something like: from 0 to 100% of cast time you only lose 1% of damage, but after 100% of cast time you start to lose 1% of damage for every 5% of cast time . www.ramiel-iruna.net/entry/2018/12/12/222106 it says the second of great magic dmg will occur after the 1st cast if the target is not ded after taking the 1st magic dmg. Afaik these great magic are meteor thing, earthquake, thor hammer and blizzard. It says the imperial skill will do a dmg after the casting of great magic. So multicast only affected with great magic only not with imperial i guess.
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Post by senoragi on Sept 25, 2020 20:56:33 GMT
Hello Aza and guys, I searched on internet (in Japanese) until I found out about multicast. here you will see a graph of reduced multicast damage. I didn't understand it very well, but it looks like something like: from 0 to 100% of cast time you only lose 1% of damage, but after 100% of cast time you start to lose 1% of damage for every 5% of cast time . www.ramiel-iruna.net/entry/2018/12/12/222106 it says the second of great magic dmg will occur after the 1st cast if the target is not ded after taking the 1st magic dmg. Afaik these great magic are meteor thing, earthquake, thor hammer and blizzard. It says the imperial skill will do a dmg after the casting of great magic. So multicast only affected with great magic only not with imperial i guess. about that every hw above lv 340 knows, what matters is the part that he talks about the reduced damage in relation to the cast time. he even made a mathematical graph.
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°Malice°
Member
Do you breath in dreams?
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Post by °Malice° on Sept 25, 2020 21:15:03 GMT
it says the second of great magic dmg will occur after the 1st cast if the target is not ded after taking the 1st magic dmg. Afaik these great magic are meteor thing, earthquake, thor hammer and blizzard. It says the imperial skill will do a dmg after the casting of great magic. So multicast only affected with great magic only not with imperial i guess. about that every hw above lv 340 knows, what matters is the part that he talks about the reduced damage in relation to the cast time. he even made a mathematical graph. eventho if the dmg is reduced not totally by 100% cuz of skill side effect u still able to deal twice dmg of great magic which is better than nothing Its just a small dmg reduction to pay for twice great magic cast.
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Post by Aza on Sept 25, 2020 23:03:12 GMT
That confirms what I see then. My equipments have 79% cast time + mirage that would be 104%.. the fastest u can go before it got dmg reduction.
Another thing I see:
This also means that HW needs DEX because it's the only source of flat CSPD which isn't affected by multicast restriction.
Fluffy mittens and cunicle autoskill will also decrease your dmg if you gone past the max -cast time%.
For grinding, you can actually spam imperial+great magic. Their dmg will increase along with the amount of Law of Elements. My nub HW at lv 320ish without multicast, force boost and fancy 2s equipment (but using -79% cast time gear) can deal 250k earthquake to 3 enemies, more with blizzard and 320k imperial. That's better than spamming blizzard endlessly because my blizzard without LoE only deals 150k..
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Post by senoragi on Sept 25, 2020 23:23:22 GMT
about that every hw above lv 340 knows, what matters is the part that he talks about the reduced damage in relation to the cast time. he even made a mathematical graph. eventho if the dmg is reduced not totally by 100% cuz of skill side effect u still able to deal twice dmg of great magic which is better than nothing Its just a small dmg reduction to pay for twice great magic cast. ''small dmg reduction''....a day when you reach 5 - 6m dmg you will see how much u dmg will fall
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Post by Aza on Sept 26, 2020 1:37:19 GMT
If we compare between dps style and burst style..
Let's say my Imp dmg with spellboost and spellburst is 800k and earthquake 250k. At 450+ DEX Imp ray needs 4sec cast with 0% ct, ~2sec cast with -100% ct and 1sec cast with -150% ct.
1) Burst style, -100% ct Earthquake! 500k dmg! (2 sec) Mana stock x2 (2sec) Imperial Ray! 2.4m dmg! (5 sec)
Total: 3.15m in 9sec or 6.3m in 18 sec
2) DPS style, -250% ct, multicast restriction applied Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg! (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg! (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg (2 sec)
Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg (2 sec)
Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec)
Total: 6.23m in 18 sec..
This doesn't count the increase dmg because of LoE
If the fight is long, I think it's also a good idea to build up LoE using -250% ct setup then switch to -200% ct setup, use forceboost to maximize dmg.The final message is always aim for -200% to -250% ct. More or less than that is bad for your dmg.
Edited. Sorry I messed up.
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Post by ishayel on Oct 19, 2020 21:55:46 GMT
If we compare between dps style and burst style.. Let's say my Imp dmg with spellboost and spellburst is 800k and earthquake 250k. At 450+ DEX Imp ray needs 4sec cast with 0% ct, ~2sec cast with -100% ct and 1sec cast with -150% ct. 1) Burst style, -100% ct Earthquake! 500k dmg! (2 sec) Mana stock x2 (2sec) Imperial Ray! 2.4m dmg! (5 sec) Total: 3.15m in 9sec or 6.3m in 18 sec 2) DPS style, -250% ct, multicast restriction applied Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg! (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg! (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Total: 6.23m in 18 sec.. This doesn't count the increase dmg because of LoE If the fight is long, I think it's also a good idea to build up LoE using -250% ct setup then switch to -200% ct setup, use forceboost to maximize dmg.The final message is always aim for -200% to -250% ct. More or less than that is bad for your dmg.Edited. Sorry I messed up. But, 500k +2.4m = not 3.15m... And earthquake have min cast time 2s and even with no dex cast time not so high. Test with meteor or blizzard... Imperial ray can down to 1s, perhaps less even. Dps beats burst for dps, but burst better if you are lazy or want 1 shoot. And something is not defined, what does he call 100% cast spd? Cast time you have only with stats, without any gear with cast time ( so without any gear with cast time, you are at 100% or 0%)? Does he count the - 75% cast time ( so without cast spd on gear, you are at 25% cast spd with multicast on) or this is what he calls 100% cast time?
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Post by Aza on Oct 20, 2020 3:42:49 GMT
If we compare between dps style and burst style.. Let's say my Imp dmg with spellboost and spellburst is 800k and earthquake 250k. At 450+ DEX Imp ray needs 4sec cast with 0% ct, ~2sec cast with -100% ct and 1sec cast with -150% ct. 1) Burst style, -100% ct Earthquake! 500k dmg! (2 sec) Mana stock x2 (2sec) Imperial Ray! 2.4m dmg! (5 sec) Total: 3.15m in 9sec or 6.3m in 18 sec 2) DPS style, -250% ct, multicast restriction applied Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg! (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg! (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Imperial Ray! 1.12m dmg (2 sec) Earthquake! 350k dmg! (2 sec) Total: 6.23m in 18 sec.. This doesn't count the increase dmg because of LoE If the fight is long, I think it's also a good idea to build up LoE using -250% ct setup then switch to -200% ct setup, use forceboost to maximize dmg.The final message is always aim for -200% to -250% ct. More or less than that is bad for your dmg.Edited. Sorry I messed up. But, 500k +2.4m = not 3.15m... Yes, my math is messed up here. Disregard my calculation I've done. By default HW have 0% cast time modifier. By using multicast, you gain +100% cast time. Magic dmg start to go down if you add more than -104% cast speed from equips/mirage, or in total, if you have more than -4% cast speed (=100%-104%). Yes mirage give -25%. The rest of 79% cast time you get from equip/al/relic/abi and that won't affect your dmg. Using force boost, although it gives increase in cspd, doesn't appear to decrease my damage. And yes, I think DPS beats burst in the long run, if that DPS is using -250% cast time set. Burst style trigger more cast barrier and will skip annoying boss effect that's triggered by %HP left. Also, burst style get more benefit from force boost, since DPS style can't go faster.
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Post by senoragi on Oct 21, 2020 2:43:40 GMT
But, 500k +2.4m = not 3.15m... Yes, my math is messed up here. Disregard my calculation I've done. By default HW have 0% cast time modifier. By using multicast, you gain +100% cast time. Magic dmg start to go down if you add more than -104% cast speed from equips/mirage, or in total, if you have more than -4% cast speed (=100%-104%). Yes mirage give -25%. The rest of 79% cast time you get from equip/al/relic/abi and that won't affect your dmg. Using force boost, although it gives increase in cspd, doesn't appear to decrease my damage. And yes, I think DPS beats burst in the long run, if that DPS is using -250% cast time set. Burst style trigger more cast barrier and will skip annoying boss effect that's triggered by %HP left. Also, burst style get more benefit from force boost, since DPS style can't go faster. (not including+ 100% multicast cast time) -110% ~ -179% = 10% reduced dmg -180% ~ -220% = 20% reduced dmg -221% ~ = 30% reduced dmg idk if more.
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