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Post by NightBreeze on Dec 1, 2017 17:46:34 GMT
as for hw's zero ray. It is OP given the fact that it can do millions in just a few second(of course with party buffs) while other "dps" are falling behind Sin can do 8m+ DMG in 10 sec, all while the boss is stunned. Now say zero is OP one more time... Just the fact that it uses 40% of MP is the fact that keeps it balanced, not to mention assault lasts only 5 sec and can be hard to proc. It's not that zero is OP, it's that other classes need a boost.
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Post by rizen on Dec 1, 2017 18:12:01 GMT
O.O Is that so? I guess I just hated hw in mainstream pt since if sins can do that much why are high wizards still in higher demand in parties than sin. Sorry
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asteg
Dank Meme Lord
yar yar...wind at ye backs me fellows.
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Post by asteg on Dec 1, 2017 22:11:28 GMT
That's the problem, on some things sin is better dps, on some hw is better, but everyone sees screenshots of zero dmg everwhere cuz of rich hws so they get the meta pt place
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Makina Yuki
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Post by Makina Yuki on Dec 1, 2017 22:15:28 GMT
Should we shows video about sin can do 8m damage in 10 sec or ench can do up to 1m damage in single attack as well? Not only hw that can do 1m damage in single attack/skill spam -.-
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Post by ●Kittkat on Dec 2, 2017 0:59:05 GMT
Should we shows video about sin can do 8m damage in 10 sec or ench can do up to 1m damage in single attack as well? Not only hw that can do 1m damage in single attack/skill spam -.- My best dmg ever with ench was just a hair over 2.1m on Altan with earth set. Granted that was with blue candy, earth drink, spell boost and all autos bursted. Still, that's crazy dmg that any class would or should be proud of.
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♪Sumire
Member
Summoner new skills pls *-*
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Post by ♪Sumire on Dec 2, 2017 21:40:23 GMT
in full pt even with no mp cost equip hw zero is cut down to 15 percent with mins dream song
assault is not too hard to proc as long u got grigori on --although someties it fails consecutively even with grigori on
in terms of survivality hw can live better than sin and ofc dont forget we have mp heal for those ever so often mp wipes
in terms of safer solo farm -- i think sin will win - stunning a boss for 10 sec then unloading aton of backstabs --easy control dmg for those bosses with pattern debuffs --
any job can be op for their class type as long one is dedicated enough to spend billions on it ...pretty much
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Post by ManaKhe on Dec 3, 2017 5:26:41 GMT
Good idea let iruna dev nerf resist and eva to 0% so real skill really needed to play iruna. ManaKhe if you feel resist op, try make 1 so you can understand how many damage we sacrifice for soloing stuffs. Never said 0% that would be silly. I also know you sacrifice a lot of damage in a resist set. These are both very obvious things. 95% Resistance is insane though, and if you want that to be an option, then you HAVE to balance around it, or else the game would be ridiculously easy. It is the same situation as Resurrect really. You read "Nerf Resistance plz" and ignored everything else I said about it. It isn't OP in the way that you can just destroy everything in the game with ease. It's just the way it plays into how damage from bosses has to get scaled because of it. Fragile classes would still probably want to wear a capped Res set(just assuming a 40% res cap) with HP gear to solo stuff sometimes. This is more easily attainable as well, so after you get that 40% you would work to find ways to maximize damage as well. Assuming boss damage is nerfed to compensate for the Res nerf then classes would end up soloing a bit faster in the long run.
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Post by ManaKhe on Dec 3, 2017 5:55:10 GMT
Just speaking as a 3year+ bishop and high wizard (both are the most used or most popular atm) Personally dont feel like either are OP at all. It actually seems to be the oposite BUT they both do have a lot of relevant usage ingame. *By solo I mean by yourself leveling up, grinding. Soloing bosses doesnt matter especially at higher levels (300+) Bishop is great at parties just like minstrel but can also do things on its own at higher levels(180+) thanks to nemisis. Resu isnt OP because besides the buffs it’s the only thing used during the boss fight and is almost never used solo. Same can be said for nemisis but its for solo. It’s really a 1 skill class for 2 situations. Both are only good in their specific situations so nerfing one would break the class. High wizard is almost perfect besides the fact that it has a lot of unuseable skills. In a party it has to be buffed like crazy by the other classes to do anything meaningful. It cant even purely solo well either. Earthquake is its only real solo skill, and even that has a high mp cost and hurts it while its an already glass cannon class. Zero is only used in boss parties where you can get buff stuffed with more damage and lower mp costs and not have to worry about dying every hit. Could be used for soloing bosses to an extent but you still have to spam hp/mp pots to do it. Actually in a party high wizard can be replaced pretty easily by any high damage class. Just that those classes suck in other areas and are too rare to demand. This includes sniper, assassin, ninja, and more. Imo the real problem is the simplicity of the game and how situational other characters are. Most fall in as a backup to Hwiz and Bish. Parties are too small and limited. Bosses are 1 dimentional. Grind is very simple. As for a solution? Boost the other classes that dont have a defined role. Maybe hunter classes could have a higher base movement speed to kite more better or a skill to remove hate from themselves all together. Like an escape route type skill. Give other classes an AOE. Or give some sort of regen skill to allow easier grinding. So much more Resurrect is definitely OP, or at least it throws off balance of the whole game. As long as Res spam is a thing, tanks won't make a comeback. Unless we just make tons of bosses that completely ignore Resurrect, at which point you might as well just fix Resurrect to begin with. This is the only thing I would nerf for Bishop really. They are very powerful even without Resurrect but I don't think anything else breaks the balance of the whole entire game. Zero Ray just doesn't fit High Wizard. It has always been a long range spell caster. It's also very finicky as I'm sure you are aware. I say just remove it, buff AOEs, make them cause status ailments, and maybe give them other interesting stuff to do from long range(maybe do stuff with a Mana Stock skill to make it better). I think the main draw of High Wizards is their versatility though. They are great with status ailments(tho this is mostly ignored if Zero Ray spamming), they can heal MP, they have the best AOE, and they are in the top 3 for boss damage(Ninja, Assassin, High Wizard). I say more of just a change for them rather than a nerf(to bring them back to their traditional role). Really the only classes that I would call "bad" atm are Servant, Gladiator, and Samurai. They all have other classes that can do what they can do but just better. Necro as well until new skills haha. Alchemist is just a pain/expensive to upkeep the items needed to actually do damage, but otherwise they are good. Sniper isn't in a great place currently either but I wouldn't call them bad. Every other class is close in usefulness to Zero SK Minstrel. If they aren't as good in a party they mop the floor solo(Monk) or they are just great at both(Auto chanter). Oh and if a Resurrect nerf happened and that was it, the meta party would just switch to Pally SK/Hwiz Bishop Minstrel or maybe Gladiator/Enchanter in place of Pally. Then all they need to do is buff Servant and then it could be Bishop/Servant instead of just Bishop haha.
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Makina Yuki
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Post by Makina Yuki on Dec 3, 2017 7:09:42 GMT
ManaKhe I agree about ressurect part, however sk & zero dps arent that great actually. In fact, some bosses can killed faster if your party dps is sin or ench. I always wonder, why ppl choose sk & zero over sin at raton farming? sin is far more effective (either for dps or farm consistency) when you farm raton. As for ench, with party only consist bish & mins, I can do iniliba less than 15 sec including rebuff and manage hate better than single sk or zero does. Fyi, at melee barrier boss, ench dps up by 25%-50%. Also, try use meta party at mamonea, your party will be doomed. Indeed, gladi, servant, and samu need some love because their niche not really relevant compared to another class. I had auto attack samu and her dps is far bellow my ench when she at same level. Not including fact that samu eats a lot of pots compared to my ench (which ridiculously self-suficent without any pots and better survival). Only good thing about my samu is its aoe is uniqe and you can do mob spawn trick with them. Dont get wrong, I like my samu as well as my ench, but I think samu need more boost to make they viable in party. As for mins, skills that make mpc to 1 (aka dream song) is another broken skill. Thats why servant never get party. Since mins will got survival skill, I hope at least they nerfed dream song by little (for example reduce mpc by -80% instead make mpc to 1).
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Post by Zensui_X on Dec 3, 2017 10:01:32 GMT
ManaKhe I agree about ressurect part, however sk & zero dps arent that great actually. In fact, some bosses can killed faster if your party dps is sin or ench. I always wonder, why ppl choose sk & zero over sin at raton farming? sin is far more effective (either for dps or farm consistency) when you farm raton. As for ench, with party only consist bish & mins, I can do iniliba less than 15 sec including rebuff and manage hate better than single sk or zero does. Fyi, at melee barrier boss, ench dps up by 25%-50%. Also, try use meta party at mamonea, your party will be doomed. Indeed, gladi, servant, and samu need some love because their niche not really relevant compared to another class. I had auto attack samu and her dps is far bellow my ench when she at same level. Not including fact that samu eats a lot of pots compared to my ench (which ridiculously self-suficent without any pots and better survival). Only good thing about my samu is its aoe is uniqe and you can do mob spawn trick with them. Dont get wrong, I like my samu as well as my ench, but I think samu need more boost to make they viable in party. As for mins, skills that make mpc to 1 (aka dream song) is another broken skill. Thats why servant never get party. Since mins will got survival skill, I hope at least they nerfed dream song by little (for example reduce mpc by -80% instead make mpc to 1). even if its -80%, with bish it can still decline back to -100%
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♪Sumire
Member
Summoner new skills pls *-*
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Post by ♪Sumire on Dec 3, 2017 10:18:15 GMT
the only few things i can think of to reduce resurrection abuse is to either increase the skill delay or make it fix like say 2-3 sec ..this way tjhe party will have to work around that since bishop can no longer quick resu everyone or .. reduce the hp healed after resurrection which will greatly affect tanks that relies on def and hp aside from resist / low hp classes will also suffer since they might die again after they got resu -- wherein the only thing they can do is equip a heal set, item delay set and spam pots without over relying on bishop -
as for hw zero - dream song makes it too op since u can cast 4 zeros and thats with spellboost on -- probably need to nerf mins dream to -50 percent mpcost
servants will be getting a bunch of support skill as well as their first mix dmg skill --this makes it viable for servants to replace mins/bishop --but who would drop that sweet song when theyre farming ... i probably would since i mostly farm solo xD
gotta admit it was fun having a servant on pt with my hw n.n sweet aura espada dmg without me doing anything xD activation rate is pretty good -- i myself managed to hit 240k up aura espada with assault on --and i only have 8.7k matk
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Makina Yuki
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Post by Makina Yuki on Dec 3, 2017 10:39:25 GMT
Zensui_X Its fine since spellboost will consume +100% mpc (at least your mp cost become usual) which means affect for some class (sk, ench, zero hw with sboost is possible if you had mins) so either joy and sorrow or divine bless will be little bit useful (outside against mp delete boss). Moreover, zero hw & ench (suprisingly nobody realized it lol) with 1 mpc is literally one of broken dps class in game.
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Makina Yuki
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Post by Makina Yuki on Dec 3, 2017 10:42:15 GMT
Aura espada actually is Op if servant is viable against hard bosses (s400 for example) and it stack with ench enchant weapon thats why I really like pt with servant. Fyi, for enchanter, aura espada damage almost comparable with dajarte.
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Post by ifron on Dec 3, 2017 11:38:28 GMT
ManaKhe I agree about ressurect part, however sk & zero dps arent that great actually. In fact, some bosses can killed faster if your party dps is sin or ench. I always wonder, why ppl choose sk & zero over sin at raton farming? sin is far more effective (either for dps or farm consistency) when you farm raton. As for ench, with party only consist bish & mins, I can do iniliba less than 15 sec including rebuff and manage hate better than single sk or zero does. Fyi, at melee barrier boss, ench dps up by 25%-50%. Also, try use meta party at mamonea, your party will be doomed. Indeed, gladi, servant, and samu need some love because their niche not really relevant compared to another class. I had auto attack samu and her dps is far bellow my ench when she at same level. Not including fact that samu eats a lot of pots compared to my ench (which ridiculously self-suficent without any pots and better survival). Only good thing about my samu is its aoe is uniqe and you can do mob spawn trick with them. Dont get wrong, I like my samu as well as my ench, but I think samu need more boost to make they viable in party. As for mins, skills that make mpc to 1 (aka dream song) is another broken skill. Thats why servant never get party. Since mins will got survival skill, I hope at least they nerfed dream song by little (for example reduce mpc by -80% instead make mpc to 1). nah samu don't need boost jp samu has fs spam that can do over 1m and hit 2m auto need high lvl if wanna be high dmg or counting on autoskill and dual blow is a must though..... They might nerf fs
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Makina Yuki
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Post by Makina Yuki on Dec 3, 2017 12:30:53 GMT
However, samu still need wait 30 sec before they do next fs right? I know that they can spam issen when wait next fs, but I only saw 200k-300k with it? Also, I always imagine that samu role is tank that can do nice critical damage. But hey, their survival isnt as good as warrior class that has passive resistance skill etc. Moreover, where samu skill that can attract hate?
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