|
Post by nic123 on Nov 27, 2017 21:38:06 GMT
Whats boss rush?
|
|
|
Post by ManaKhe on Nov 28, 2017 3:57:16 GMT
we can only speculate about the changes, looks like some classes will be left untouched, ninja, being one used most will be nerfed, they probably didn't do anything with hw and bishop because they need support if they want to bring down big enemies, they are great on mobs, mostly 1 hit killing em, but they lack survivability (except counter bishop maybe) Something being used the most isn't really a reason to nerf it, however a lot of developers go by this anyways. Ninja's in particular are a good example of this as they have only been top tier since SK but have always been extremely popular. Ninjas need more of just a change than a nerf imo(maybe a slight nerf). The clone system really affects survivability in weird ways too much with status effects. Hwiz is the same in that it needs a change, or to just be reverted back to pre Zero Ray and then buffed. Zero Ray makes no sense for High Wizard. High Wizards can solo stuff well too I believe btw. Bishop has extremely good survivability because of Resurrect. Even if Resurrect was nerfed and instant kill attacks were removed Bishop would still have fairly good survivability.
|
|
|
Post by ManaKhe on Nov 28, 2017 4:04:43 GMT
Ench should get skills later to enchanted armours, like counter by def on arm, some sort of support auto on add, like dmg disable or heal, and atk or matk on spec More equips should have class specific stats, gladi should get an array of swords that just boost AA dmg by 100%, then even if u Nerf the formula for dmg they still do the best(ish) auto atk DPS Samu vs gladi is a old argument but I'm gladi is a better natural tank, with guard and espranza u have like +60% res, with samu u have hcb sure but if u do what I did and not add any vit then healing yourself a ton isn't gonna halp much On a side note my gladi is my only char that I haven't really geard or bought also for >.< But still pretty strong Chanter needs a Counter Autoskill buff. Idk about them actually buffing armors though. I'd rather not go into crafting/professional class stuff in Iruna. Also to comment on the res cap: Why not make a much much lower res cap for gear(like 40% max) and then anything beyond that has to be from a classes skill. Also making DEF/MDEF more useful would help as well. Class specific equips could bring more uniqueness to items and make different builds possible. More customization is welcome
|
|
|
Post by pingrek on Nov 28, 2017 4:58:27 GMT
we can only speculate about the changes, looks like some classes will be left untouched, ninja, being one used most will be nerfed, they probably didn't do anything with hw and bishop because they need support if they want to bring down big enemies, they are great on mobs, mostly 1 hit killing em, but they lack survivability (except counter bishop maybe) Something being used the most isn't really a reason to nerf it, however a lot of developers go by this anyways. Ninja's in particular are a good example of this as they have only been top tier since SK but have always been extremely popular. Ninjas need more of just a change than a nerf imo(maybe a slight nerf). The clone system really affects survivability in weird ways too much with status effects. Hwiz is the same in that it needs a change, or to just be reverted back to pre Zero Ray and then buffed. Zero Ray makes no sense for High Wizard. High Wizards can solo stuff well too I believe btw. Bishop has extremely good survivability because of Resurrect. Even if Resurrect was nerfed and instant kill attacks were removed Bishop would still have fairly good survivability. It's been a while since I read what the changes might be but my memory keeps telling me that the instant death that will be removed will be the one by chance when hit by a critical attack while frozen
|
|
|
Post by bikini on Nov 29, 2017 0:07:24 GMT
eng iruna didn't update monk asura, and necro dark javelin has stupid delay cap.
|
|
|
Post by ManaKhe on Nov 29, 2017 1:38:45 GMT
Something being used the most isn't really a reason to nerf it, however a lot of developers go by this anyways. Ninja's in particular are a good example of this as they have only been top tier since SK but have always been extremely popular. Ninjas need more of just a change than a nerf imo(maybe a slight nerf). The clone system really affects survivability in weird ways too much with status effects. Hwiz is the same in that it needs a change, or to just be reverted back to pre Zero Ray and then buffed. Zero Ray makes no sense for High Wizard. High Wizards can solo stuff well too I believe btw. Bishop has extremely good survivability because of Resurrect. Even if Resurrect was nerfed and instant kill attacks were removed Bishop would still have fairly good survivability. It's been a while since I read what the changes might be but my memory keeps telling me that the instant death that will be removed will be the one by chance when hit by a critical attack while frozen Yeah I remember seeing that. Which is a step in the right direction but really they need to be removed all together. Everything has become balanced around Resurrect so it's all kinda wonky now.
|
|
|
Post by Undyne on Nov 29, 2017 3:34:16 GMT
we can only speculate about the changes, looks like some classes will be left untouched, ninja, being one used most will be nerfed, they probably didn't do anything with hw and bishop because they need support if they want to bring down big enemies, they are great on mobs, mostly 1 hit killing em, but they lack survivability (except counter bishop maybe) Something being used the most isn't really a reason to nerf it, however a lot of developers go by this anyways. Ninja's in particular are a good example of this as they have only been top tier since SK but have always been extremely popular. Ninjas need more of just a change than a nerf imo(maybe a slight nerf). The clone system really affects survivability in weird ways too much with status effects. Hwiz is the same in that it needs a change, or to just be reverted back to pre Zero Ray and then buffed. Zero Ray makes no sense for High Wizard. High Wizards can solo stuff well too I believe btw. Bishop has extremely good survivability because of Resurrect. Even if Resurrect was nerfed and instant kill attacks were removed Bishop would still have fairly good survivability. In my opinion ninja is a tad too strong. Practically guaranteed survival until they're blinded or stunned, in which case a resistance set shrugs off damage while they reclone/rebuff/etc, and attacks that bypass clones have been rare so far into this episode. (I've played a ninja and I still do currently so dont say the old "you dont know what you're talking about"line, this is based on MY personal experience) Hw in my opinion is actually pretty balanced. We have a total of one defense skill that essentially just covers us on the occasional bad bander RNG. The only thing that makes hw reliable solo is resistance sets, which in and of themselves dont make it easy. In boss parties, I dont even bother going to debuff bosses as 1. Grigori sucks xD. And 2. Being right next to the boss (most likely with aggro) as you lose your assault, resu, grigori, and even mirage is panic inducing until you inevitably die to a bishop who prioritizes those who have a groeater chance of surviving without resu (nothing annoys me more than when I have grigori rebuffed after dying, then dying to a bishop who resus the mins or sk e.e). And let's not mention how ridiculous some bosses mdef is getting, ever since vulschem, my ZR has done 800k max in situations where I'd have normally done 1.2m+ on older bosses(worst yet have been ganesha/rogelio) and bosses have only been getting tougher. I assure you, hw may be an easier class to play early on, and it may be simple to farm the easier bosses and lower HP bosses, but its definitely not as easy as people assume it is Onto my point with this before it becomes too rantish lol. I feel like simply changing gear with resistance would solve a few problems. Instead of making cap resistance class specific, why not do something such as "melee and magic resistance+6%, if paladin or beast knight, additional+8%" or "rate cut+15% if knight profession" instead of giving people a hard cap to how tanky they can get? So yes you can still have a high wizard with 95% resistance but in the progress you severely suffer in damage due to limited gear that will support matk and resistance. Isn't the appeal of Iruna how open ended it is for your character? Its not like it would be the first time the more desirable stats would be class specific (black mage staff, saint scripture, archbishop,etc).
|
|
|
Post by ManaKhe on Nov 30, 2017 1:43:11 GMT
Something being used the most isn't really a reason to nerf it, however a lot of developers go by this anyways. Ninja's in particular are a good example of this as they have only been top tier since SK but have always been extremely popular. Ninjas need more of just a change than a nerf imo(maybe a slight nerf). The clone system really affects survivability in weird ways too much with status effects. Hwiz is the same in that it needs a change, or to just be reverted back to pre Zero Ray and then buffed. Zero Ray makes no sense for High Wizard. High Wizards can solo stuff well too I believe btw. Bishop has extremely good survivability because of Resurrect. Even if Resurrect was nerfed and instant kill attacks were removed Bishop would still have fairly good survivability. In my opinion ninja is a tad too strong. Practically guaranteed survival until they're blinded or stunned, in which case a resistance set shrugs off damage while they reclone/rebuff/etc, and attacks that bypass clones have been rare so far into this episode. (I've played a ninja and I still do currently so dont say the old "you dont know what you're talking about"line, this is based on MY personal experience) Hw in my opinion is actually pretty balanced. We have a total of one defense skill that essentially just covers us on the occasional bad bander RNG. The only thing that makes hw reliable solo is resistance sets, which in and of themselves dont make it easy. In boss parties, I dont even bother going to debuff bosses as 1. Grigori sucks xD. And 2. Being right next to the boss (most likely with aggro) as you lose your assault, resu, grigori, and even mirage is panic inducing until you inevitably die to a bishop who prioritizes those who have a groeater chance of surviving without resu (nothing annoys me more than when I have grigori rebuffed after dying, then dying to a bishop who resus the mins or sk e.e). And let's not mention how ridiculous some bosses mdef is getting, ever since vulschem, my ZR has done 800k max in situations where I'd have normally done 1.2m+ on older bosses(worst yet have been ganesha/rogelio) and bosses have only been getting tougher. I assure you, hw may be an easier class to play early on, and it may be simple to farm the easier bosses and lower HP bosses, but its definitely not as easy as people assume it is Onto my point with this before it becomes too rantish lol. I feel like simply changing gear with resistance would solve a few problems. Instead of making cap resistance class specific, why not do something such as "melee and magic resistance+6%, if paladin or beast knight, additional+8%" or "rate cut+15% if knight profession" instead of giving people a hard cap to how tanky they can get? So yes you can still have a high wizard with 95% resistance but in the progress you severely suffer in damage due to limited gear that will support matk and resistance. Isn't the appeal of Iruna how open ended it is for your character? Its not like it would be the first time the more desirable stats would be class specific (black mage staff, saint scripture, archbishop,etc). I feel as if Iruna has become much less open ended compared to how it used to be really haha. That's a whole other discussion though lol. I never said Hwiz was easy to play . However onto their solo capabilities: They can still kill stuff quickly even with Res set anyways compared to other classes. Really I think they just need to have Zero Ray removed and have other stuff to improve their solo capabilities and damage as well. Make them go back to kiting how they used to do which fits better thematically with the class. Maybe give them a spell that does a lower amount of damage and gives 1 clone? Something to improve their survivability without a res set just a little bit. As for Res sets, they are just too OP. A full 95% res set is also required for some classes to solo. Really the problem is that you can reduce the damage you take to 1/20 of normal. That is insane, which means the original damage has to also be very high to compensate. Lowering boss damage and lowering the res cap makes more sense IMO. I don't think nerfing res sets will make Iruna less open ended either. I don't play Ninja so I definitely couldn't say that line btw I don't think one needs to play the class to know the state of balance in the game haha(I don't play Hwiz or Bishop either).
|
|
|
Post by bolucookies on Nov 30, 2017 12:18:42 GMT
Good idea let iruna dev nerf resist and eva to 0% so real skill really needed to play iruna. ManaKhe if you feel resist op, try make 1 so you can understand how many damage we sacrifice for soloing stuffs.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 5:31:28 GMT
Lol they keep digging themselves into a hole. They're already struggling with balancing classes, yet, they plan on releasing 2 slotted armor, add, and spec.
|
|
|
Post by blazer on Dec 1, 2017 7:55:28 GMT
Lol they keep digging themselves into a hole. They're already struggling with balancing classes, yet, they plan on releasing 2 slotted armor, add, and spec. well by balance what i understood is not reducing damage but bringing comparatively weak classes to mainstream so 2s have no effect on them x
|
|
|
Post by 'AhSaN' on Dec 1, 2017 12:23:06 GMT
Hey guys!
I skipped some conversations in this thread (Don't know if this was discussed here). Will the "Melee to Element +X%" will get lowered along with Critical attacks too?
Thanks in advance!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 15:40:09 GMT
Lol they keep digging themselves into a hole. They're already struggling with balancing classes, yet, they plan on releasing 2 slotted armor, add, and spec. well by balance what i understood is not reducing damage but bringing comparatively weak classes to mainstream so 2s have no effect on them x Actually, it's a big difference. Imagine a High Wizard doing 1m Zero Ray. Let's go ahead and add another Moldus, Dunkelis II, and Agira Jarma to their gear. That's another 54% MATK. Let's just say a 540k damage increase, bringing their Zero Ray to 1.5m Vs. a class that does 300k. Another 54% gives them a 162k damage increase, bringing them to 462k. If anything, adding 2 slotted everything makes their job much harder in bringing up non-mainstream classes since it's more to factor into the equation.
|
|
|
Post by Tilt*Madara on Dec 1, 2017 15:40:23 GMT
Just speaking as a 3year+ bishop and high wizard (both are the most used or most popular atm)
Personally dont feel like either are OP at all. It actually seems to be the oposite BUT they both do have a lot of relevant usage ingame.
*By solo I mean by yourself leveling up, grinding. Soloing bosses doesnt matter especially at higher levels (300+)
Bishop is great at parties just like minstrel but can also do things on its own at higher levels(180+) thanks to nemisis. Resu isnt OP because besides the buffs it’s the only thing used during the boss fight and is almost never used solo. Same can be said for nemisis but its for solo. It’s really a 1 skill class for 2 situations. Both are only good in their specific situations so nerfing one would break the class.
High wizard is almost perfect besides the fact that it has a lot of unuseable skills. In a party it has to be buffed like crazy by the other classes to do anything meaningful. It cant even purely solo well either. Earthquake is its only real solo skill, and even that has a high mp cost and hurts it while its an already glass cannon class. Zero is only used in boss parties where you can get buff stuffed with more damage and lower mp costs and not have to worry about dying every hit. Could be used for soloing bosses to an extent but you still have to spam hp/mp pots to do it.
Actually in a party high wizard can be replaced pretty easily by any high damage class. Just that those classes suck in other areas and are too rare to demand. This includes sniper, assassin, ninja, and more.
Imo the real problem is the simplicity of the game and how situational other characters are. Most fall in as a backup to Hwiz and Bish. Parties are too small and limited. Bosses are 1 dimentional. Grind is very simple.
As for a solution? Boost the other classes that dont have a defined role. Maybe hunter classes could have a higher base movement speed to kite more better or a skill to remove hate from themselves all together. Like an escape route type skill. Give other classes an AOE. Or give some sort of regen skill to allow easier grinding. So much more
|
|
|
Post by rizen on Dec 1, 2017 16:08:11 GMT
As for a solution? Boost the other classes that dont have a defined role. Maybe hunter classes could have a higher base movement speed to kite more better or a skill to remove hate from themselves all together. Like an escape route type skill. Give other classes an AOE. Or give some sort of regen skill to allow easier grinding. So much more I think these were already implemented or to be implemented in the future. Imo, resu is op not solely for bishes but mainly in grinding parties since some classes that are not supposed to be "tank" can tank anyboss if there is a resu spam supporting behind. Thus making bish OP as a support and making servants (which is also built as a support) useless in the eyes of many.*NOT SAYING SERVANT IS USELESS*. as for hw's zero ray. It is OP given the fact that it can do millions in just a few second(of course with party buffs) while other "dps" are falling behind. Also pls refrain from complaining about buffing as a hw. Pls. * pls dont hate me* ^-^
|
|