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Post by ManaKhe on Apr 16, 2014 1:59:46 GMT
I'll try amulet+ at some point. I'm mostly focused on getting 2 slot Dia Espada though so it might be a while. I also sold my magic amp I think so I gotta get of those too. I've only tried witch knife and dielita and felt both were crap compared to Dia Espada. Theoretically Dielita should be the same as Dia Espada basically but from what I've noticed it is worse. Witch Knife was not even worth comparing to Dia Espada/Dielita though. I also felt like Lotus seeds was better than magic amp even using dielita/witch knife and I've noticed reduce is better than lotus seeds since then.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 2:20:14 GMT
I'll try amulet+ at some point. I'm mostly focused on getting 2 slot Dia Espada though so it might be a while. I also sold my magic amp I think so I gotta get of those too. I've only tried witch knife and dielita and felt both were crap compared to Dia Espada. Theoretically Dielita should be the same as Dia Espada basically but from what I've noticed it is worse. Witch Knife was not even worth comparing to Dia Espada/Dielita though. I also felt like Lotus seeds was better than magic amp even using dielita/witch knife and I've noticed reduce is better than lotus seeds since then. Reduce bangle would be better when it comes to needing to shorten the interval of attack. Lotus seeds would be better if you need autoskill% to cast your auto attacks. Magic amp increases ypur magic attacl based on AGI Explain how one of these would be better than the other when they all serve a different purpose. Maybe to a magic sword build, a magic amp is crap because it only works on staffs. Also why isnt witch knife worth comparing. You keep close to the same melee as a dai espada (both gain 2.5atk per INT) And they both have an autoskill attack but at the same time, witch knife allows higher magic attack because of the magic amp. This makes up for the lower melee and slower interval. This also makes lotus seeds and reduce bangle work well with the staff. Both help cast the stronger autoskills than the magic sword has.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 2:33:41 GMT
I'll try amulet+ at some point. I'm mostly focused on getting 2 slot Dia Espada though so it might be a while. I also sold my magic amp I think so I gotta get of those too. I've only tried witch knife and dielita and felt both were crap compared to Dia Espada. Theoretically Dielita should be the same as Dia Espada basically but from what I've noticed it is worse. Witch Knife was not even worth comparing to Dia Espada/Dielita though. I also felt like Lotus seeds was better than magic amp even using dielita/witch knife and I've noticed reduce is better than lotus seeds since then. Reduce bangle would be better when it comes to needing to shorten the interval of attack. Lotus seeds would be better if you need autoskill% to cast your auto attacks. Magic amp increases ypur magic attacl based on AGI Explain how one of these would be better than the other when they all serve a different purpose. Maybe to a magic sword build, a magic amp is crap because it only works on staffs. Also why isnt witch knife worth comparing. You keep close to the same melee as a dai espada (both gain 2.5atk per INT) And they both have an autoskill attack but at the same time, witch knife allows higher magic attack because of the magic amp. This makes up for the lower melee and slower interval. This also makes lotus seeds and reduce bangle work well with the staff. Both help cast the stronger autoskills than the magic sword has. well said. i can never be so agree that a staff is better. giving that the build requires more agi for eva, aspd & matk. its just better than conventional dia.
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Post by ManaKhe on Apr 16, 2014 3:00:46 GMT
Their purpose is the same, Magic Amp can have a slightly different purpose but its basically the same still. They all increase the damage you deal. With better gear or when a mob has low MDEF, reduce bangle increases it the most followed by lotus seeds and then magic amp. For stuff with High mdef and/or when you don't have really good gear, Magic Amp probably comes out on top, followed by reduce and then lotus seeds. When you have really good gear magic amp will come out on the bottom or at best a little ahead of lotus seeds. And yes obviously magic amp is crap with a magic sword build. I've done a high AGI build for using magic amp before. Dielita did way better than witch knife for me, using both lotus seeds and magic amp. Dia Espada did better too. Thats why I said it isn't worth comparing. It was an obvious difference. Also Dia espada did better than Dielita. This was actually with Hexe Espada and Dielita, but the ups for both of those would just increase the gap between them and witch knife.
Dia Espada's auto skill attack is much better than witch knife's, same with Dielita's, especially as you get higher MATK. Also Dia Espada boosts its own mana wave AND Ciel's. I think Dielita II just boosts it's own but I could be wrong. Also you say magic amp makes up for lower melee and lower interval, but that really isn't the case, especially as you get better gear. My gear isn't spectacular(only using 3 slots at the moment) and that already matches if not beats magic amp user damage because I autoskill more often. I could get like 900 more MATK from crystals(w/o spellboost). That would further distance the gap.
Staff isn't necessarily a bad option for Enchanter, its just not superior to Magic sword like you say it is. Also Witch knife is not the best staff for Enchanter. Dielita is definitely better(higher MATK, +10 DEX means you can add less of that and more of AGI sooner, way better autoskill). Amulet+ is most likely better too.
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aroxis
Member
I liek cupcakes .-.
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Post by aroxis on Apr 16, 2014 3:30:16 GMT
The two people you are arguing don't like dia anyway. One isn't even an ench so she's all theory but no application while the other hates mainstream weapons. Don't even bother arguing anymore. If they wanna whack stuff with staffs..let them.
But what i understand from what tilt is sayin is that even though staff slow melee, m.amp will make up for it......Thats kinda like saying that grand axe is better than red tengu....grand axe has great power but is it worth losing that aspd?
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Post by ManaKhe on Apr 16, 2014 3:42:49 GMT
The two people you are arguing don't like dia anyway. One isn't even an ench so she's all theory but no application while the other hates mainstream weapons. Don't even bother arguing anymore. If they wanna whack stuff with staffs..let them. But what i understand from what tilt is sayin is that even though staff slow melee, m.amp will make up for it......Thats kinda like saying that grand axe is better than red tengu....grand axe has great power but is it worth losing that aspd? Tilt has an Enchanter. I don't think it is very high leveled and I don't know if she has geared it decently or not. The difference between staff and sword is probably less than tengu and grand axe.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 3:50:06 GMT
The two people you are arguing don't like dia anyway. One isn't even an ench so she's all theory but no application while the other hates mainstream weapons. Don't even bother arguing anymore. If they wanna whack stuff with staffs..let them. But what i understand from what tilt is sayin is that even though staff slow melee, m.amp will make up for it......Thats kinda like saying that grand axe is better than red tengu....grand axe has great power but is it worth losing that aspd? yea. mainstream weapon. i dont use it but still, i have dia. i'v told you i love to mimic other classes right? i use dia to look like a paly & i have assault that looks like hard hit so they believe im a paly. we are comparing dia which i dont always use & amulet which also i dont always use. its not biased at all. dont looks at me and say "she dont like dia" because i dont like amulet either but my damage is leaning toward amulet better. its totally fair. about your grand axe: no we dont lose aspd. you are not comparing it right. cane build has more agi for magic amp thus grant max aspd. dont forget that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 3:56:33 GMT
i believe we are comparing cane by using sword build now. argument over. Tilt was right that cane will do more damage. Aroxis was right too saying dia is better. manakhe is right for saying dia will deal more damage in long term.
the only mistake you never point out is the build. its useless to build int/vit and use claw. same concept. its pointless to build int/dex/agi and use a cane. that's not right at all. of course dia will be better if you build your enchanter like this. i have plenty of agi so cane works better for me compare to dia. dont bash cane for not working properly with your sword build.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 3:57:58 GMT
how do i put this...if the autoskill trigger rate is low, the only way to fix it is aspd more hit more chance....also espada doesnt add any autoskill trigger rate... if u want best weapon....my only option will go for magic bow which is nt implement yet bt adding int & dex get more atk
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 4:00:15 GMT
how do i put this...if the autoskill trigger rate is low, the only way to fix it is aspd more hit more chance....also espada doesnt add any autoskill trigger rate... if u want best weapon....my only option will go for magic bow which is nt implement yet bt adding int & dex get more atk bow need more aspd compared to sword and both add atk by INT/DEX so its just the same.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 4:03:03 GMT
how do i put this...if the autoskill trigger rate is low, the only way to fix it is aspd more hit more chance....also espada doesnt add any autoskill trigger rate... if u want best weapon....my only option will go for magic bow which is nt implement yet bt adding int & dex get more atk bow need more aspd compared to sword and both add atk by INT/DEX so its just the same. u dont nid to compare weapon to judge it...u gonna max ur agi for evation, also for magic amplifier 1.1 matk per agi...im sure staff will get more matk dmg if ur lvl is 255
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 4:13:39 GMT
bow need more aspd compared to sword and both add atk by INT/DEX so its just the same. u dont nid to compare weapon to judge it...u gonna max ur agi for evation, also for magic amplifier 1.1 matk per agi...im sure staff will get more matk dmg if ur lvl is 255 im looking forward to using bow. i just love taking ranged shot plus the range buff from lv220 skill. there's a lot of support item for staff that increase matk by agi such as green glasses, burnos crysta, magic amp. there's a lot of matk to hold plus with max agi, you definitely wont get hit. i have 500+ idle evasion & 800+ active evasion. it really helps.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 4:49:31 GMT
The two people you are arguing don't like dia anyway. One isn't even an ench so she's all theory but no application while the other hates mainstream weapons. Don't even bother arguing anymore. If they wanna whack stuff with staffs..let them. But what i understand from what tilt is sayin is that even though staff slow melee, m.amp will make up for it......Thats kinda like saying that grand axe is better than red tengu....grand axe has great power but is it worth losing that aspd? Nobody said we dont like dai, i have a dia, and i had an enchanter. So stop assuming things. So far the so called "non enchanter" and a more experienced enchanter than you have supplied an argument with facts. Then theres you, and you come right off the bat dissing the staff and you never added any type of support. Thats the FIRST comment on the thread. The comparison between grand axe and red tengu isnt even relevant. You shouldnt even be an enchanter honestly. All you understand about it is from what you seen on a youtube video. if your so against staffs from the start, and have no intention of sharing any logic or atleast giving credit to anything, then again, stay off the thread. ManaKheI still dont get what you mean when you say that 3 totally different things are better than another. Also it is possible to have good gear with a staff too, not only with a sword. Its already fact that staff will cast higher magic attack damage. If you add the top notch magic gear to espada and staff, the staff would still hit higher auto casts. no matter how many slots. Its just making something already strong stronger when you add matk gear to a staff enchanter build. Im just letting people know that a staff enchanter exists and is useable and that the magic sword is not the ultimate god of weapons for enchanter. If you rely on magic to kill your opponents use a staff with an Int/Agi/Dex Build. INT> AGI> DEX INT Kansuto after AGI fastest, rest DEX Similarly therefore basically fight relying on activation of additional magic in the case of the short sword attribute system equipped to fight with skill Weapon focus and add magic wand beat can use most effectively If your using a magic sword use a int/dex/agi build. INT> DEXorCRT> AGI Among the status basic points in the magic sword is not big enough to CRT or DEX INT Kansuto after AGI fastest, the rest is supplemented by Christa and equipment So in conclusion, a staff is better for a staff build and a sword is better for a sword build. nobody wrong here except aroxis
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Post by ManaKhe on Apr 16, 2014 6:37:31 GMT
To syerin: I've been comparing a sword builds damage with sword equips to a staff builds damage with staff actually.
To Tilt: The purpose of those 3 special equips is to boost your DPS, they all do this, they do it in different ways. Reduce bangle just happens to do it the best. The reason better gear helps sword/non magic amp more is because of mobs MDEF and how badly it affects our damage. Magic amp user: hits 1.5 autoskills per attack on average, 6k enchant weapon, 5k mana wave, does about 9k on average per attack. Gets another xtal, hits 7k enchant weapon and 6k mana wave, now does 10.5k on average. Lotus seeds/reduce bangle user: hits 2.25 per attack(or 1.5 at double speed most of the time). Hits 4.5k enchant weapon and 4k mana waves. About 9k also on average(higher with reduce). Gets xtal and now does 5.5k enchant weapon and 5k mana waves from this. Now hits 11-12k on average.
MDEF exists, if it didn't then both would get the same % improvement in their damage, but it does exist so non magic amp users get a better %damage improvement from matk xtals.
Also around 2.5-2.6k Matk I've noticed that mana waves damage starts to be about the same as enchant weapons damage and will probably pass it soon after that point. This will change when lvl 2 enchant weapon comes out I'm sure but at the moment mana wave autoskills have the highest potential damage output for us.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 7:29:06 GMT
1) cane build dont use atk crystas. if you're using fg on dia, use fg for cane too. 2) mdef has nothing at all to do with your damage. you're not a monk to deal more damage to mdef or def. 3) if mdef stops cane magic power, it will stop your magic sword magic power as well. 4) the thing you're referring to is not called MATK/magic attack. its called magical through which again had nothing to do with matk crystas. 5) whatever you slot in your weapon determines the power output. there's no such thing as more slot will make your sword superior unless you slot your sword with isu & leave your cane empty. 6) both dia espada & amulet/witch knife has no magical through nor matk boost. only weapon prefix stat & crysta will determine damage output.
enchant weapon mastery: ATK up by INT & MATK rise as cane when using magic weapon. break down the words. "ATK up by INT"= you gain atk boost for sword so cane is not relevant for melee focused ones. "MATK rise as cane when using magic weapon"= you gain matk for magic weapon BUT it never mention cane will never gain matk anymore.
conclusion: magic sword=cane. end of story. power output is the same.
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