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Post by nebula on Aug 27, 2015 10:03:19 GMT
Can we all agree on this? I mean come on, I've witnessed no other class that does over 10k damage in one skill, I expected the Mage class to debuff the enemies and buff the party with above average dps, not just the outright powerhouse of every party, there single target dps beats all other intended single target dps class which I don't think is neccesarily fair in addition to there massive damaging aoe's which is like icing on top. Don't get me wrong, it's a great class but it is slightly overpowered in comparison to the other dps classes. What does everyone else think?
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Post by ManaKhe on Aug 27, 2015 16:03:35 GMT
Can we all agree on this? I mean come on, I've witnessed no other class that does over 10k damage in one skill, I expected the Mage class to debuff the enemies and buff the party with above average dps, not just the outright powerhouse of every party, there single target dps beats all other intended single target dps class which I don't think is neccesarily fair in addition to there massive damaging aoe's which is like icing on top. Don't get me wrong, it's a great class but it is slightly overpowered in comparison to the other dps classes. What does everyone else think? 2H Sword can easily hit over 10k with one skill. While they still lose to Mages if they are done right they don't do much less than mages and if it's a shorter fight the 2H Sword will win. Sometimes it just depends on the boss for which one will do more damage really. Only problems I see is that Sword users don't need to get as much hate as they do without taunt skills cause this hurts pure DPS builds and doesn't do too much for Tank builds. The other is Archers don't do enough damage and Arrow Rain should probably cost 200 MP instead of 300.
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Post by nebula on Aug 27, 2015 17:30:06 GMT
I have been in loads of parties throughout Toram and every party I've seen with a Mage and 2h, 90% of the time the Mage has won by either miles over or there's a sizeable gap in dps between them, and I don't think that's quite fair, the 2h sword is mainly single target oriented (apart from 1/2 skills) while Mages can swap alternatively at will, I really do hope the other classes catch up because the Mage seems like a lazy dps class where they can just press 2 buttons and watch the boss die, while the 2h has to be on point for all the boss fights
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Post by ManaKhe on Aug 27, 2015 17:57:37 GMT
I have been in loads of parties throughout Toram and every party I've seen with a Mage and 2h, 90% of the time the Mage has won by either miles over or there's a sizeable gap in dps between them, and I don't think that's quite fair, the 2h sword is mainly single target oriented (apart from 1/2 skills) while Mages can swap alternatively at will, I really do hope the other classes catch up because the Mage seems like a lazy dps class where they can just press 2 buttons and watch the boss die, while the 2h has to be on point for all the boss fights There usually isn't much of a gap when I play 2h. If the mage can take advantage of an element there will be a decent sized gap though. However on a 2h if a boss has lower HP I pretty much always beat the mage. Also 2h is extremely good at AOE and many will argue Sonic Blade>Mana Wall. As soon as more elemental 2h swords come out they will match Mages in almost all situations. Mages main strength is that it has both Fire and Water element weapons when we have mostly Earth and Fire bosses. However Mages AND 2H are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of DPS. Archers should be up there with them as well though and they are not.
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Post by nebula on Aug 27, 2015 19:01:45 GMT
I see,so why doesnt much ppl play as 2h in terms of dps instead of Mage? The archers and 1h dps's get no love, hopefully the archers and 1h get an OP skill to help there dps and catch up
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Post by dangercats on Aug 27, 2015 20:58:23 GMT
On another note 1h dps can nearly be close to a mages aswell. I would say that in over 70% of the parties im in I can compete with 2h sword damage and give mages a run for there money aswell were its either a tie where the mage gets it by a small margin or I will even take attacker with 1h over a mage or 2h build. Its quite possible with the right equipments and the right combo setup. Also to add my 1h build can go either 2h or 1h because of its stats and still do the same damage. Though after maxing the sword skill tree I went more to a 1h setup considering what I chose for a sub class to max my dps even more. Daggers yup daggers for max dps with a 1h setup. Evn with consecutive on all my skills im doing 6 attacks with 2k to 6k damage each for only 100mp total thats like 12k to 36k damage off one combo of 100mp which I spam non stop pretty much.
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Post by ManaKhe on Aug 28, 2015 0:39:03 GMT
I see,so why doesnt much ppl play as 2h in terms of dps instead of Mage? The archers and 1h dps's get no love, hopefully the archers and 1h get an OP skill to help there dps and catch up Mages are easier and do better than 2h without good gear. 1h is a little bit lower DPS but its in a great place because of how good they are at breaking and the option for them to tank. Archers just won't tank as well and are only okay at breaking. They also won't solo as easily as 1H or 2H. Also if people know what they are doing Mage and 2H do similar damage in most situations, then 1H does a little less if DPS built, and then Archers less after that. However if people don't know what they are doing Mages will completely overshadow everyone else by a mile. So people tend to pick the easy to play class before others.
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Post by vipr on Aug 28, 2015 2:37:07 GMT
Honestly I hav never played a game where mages aren't op imo. It's a mix of insane DMG and aoe plus most every mob and player has lower mdef than def resulting in mages having an advantage in that aspect as well. That's my opinion though
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Post by dangercats on Aug 28, 2015 3:14:53 GMT
Generally a mages weakness is his physical defense and thats still pretty apparent in toram not as much with current mobs but there are mobs that 1 or 2 hits on ya as a mage that hasnt stacked hp gear and your still dead. Like magic on the melee dps builds will kill ya quick. Most of this can be taken care of with a good party that has mages and melee fighters.
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meowmeow
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Post by meowmeow on Aug 30, 2015 7:51:47 GMT
Couldnt disagre more with this. Mages do alot of damage yes but they are not top damage dealers. A 2Hander equipped and speced right will eat a mage alive dps wise. The problem is there arent too many top end 2hander players around (compaired to mages its like they dont exist).
2H do instant damage compaired to cast time skills of mages. AOE wise sonic blade is more destructive and versatile than magic wall, people just don't realise this. It depends a little on what boss is being fought but even with element weaks from using water staff and 2h can still equal pass mage dps. I expect 2H to get very very crazy, more levels allows more crit and add in elemental weakness on weapons.
Damage wise a geared up 2H will happily hit 20k+ on astute (smite combo) - 13k+ normally. Trigger slash can do up to 15k on a crit. Hardhit 8k.
Problem is it's very expensive and time consuming to gear up a 2 hander.
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meowmeow
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Post by meowmeow on Aug 30, 2015 7:53:56 GMT
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Post by nebula on Aug 30, 2015 12:35:03 GMT
Yes I agree 2h can do top end damage, mages are on par with that tho, plus they can constant keep that damage with charge behind a magic arrow, like I said all other classes have to work to achieve that damage, mages can just sit there, click to buttons every minute or so and watch the boss' die, and there dps isn't even average so they can do more work, that's what makes them broken, 2h have to be on it 24/7 when killing the boss with little off time, mages can afk for a little while during a boss fight and still get as much damage. They are a good class but it just seems like lazy dps.Do you see where I'm coming from?
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meowmeow
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Post by meowmeow on Aug 30, 2015 14:19:58 GMT
Those arrows, walls and charges can be very effective though. I wouldn't call it lazy dps though, its just the way the class is at the moment. Very effective in parties at bosses / mini bosses if there's someone to tank, problem is mages can be very squishy, glasses cannons sometimes, cast time can be a big 'douh!' miss time it or be unlucky getting stuck casting in red zones can be a death sentence!
2H has to be a bit more active, yeah. If they are tanking/end up tanking then alot. Attack range is huge with a 2H most normal/small red zone attacks are ignored you can hit the target from outside it. At the moment 2H certainly has more solo capability but parties are always better anyways :'). Things like forestia and gold skeleton though are a big 'zzzz' for melee even with +hit or +crit. Forestia is doable solo (wouldn't advise it unless your bored), gold skeleton is beast though.
I think most people are wall, arrow builds. I'm pretty sure blast does similar/greater hits like that 21k astute.
I'm curious about what sort of damage top end bowguns and brawlers can do. I'm guessing it might not be one big hit but smaller quicker hits. The overall dps might not be far behind those big hits???
For me it's a shame there's sooooo many mages every man and thier dog has a mage! The general feeling is mages are the class to be for damage and aoe, i don't think thats the case. There are so many skills to choose from and i feel alot don't know just how good those skills are.
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Post by ManaKhe on Aug 30, 2015 18:05:04 GMT
Those arrows, walls and charges can be very effective though. I wouldn't call it lazy dps though, its just the way the class is at the moment. Very effective in parties at bosses / mini bosses if there's someone to tank, problem is mages can be very squishy, glasses cannons sometimes, cast time can be a big 'douh!' miss time it or be unlucky getting stuck casting in red zones can be a death sentence! 2H has to be a bit more active, yeah. If they are tanking/end up tanking then alot. Attack range is huge with a 2H most normal/small red zone attacks are ignored you can hit the target from outside it. At the moment 2H certainly has more solo capability but parties are always better anyways :'). Things like forestia and gold skeleton though are a big 'zzzz' for melee even with +hit or +crit. Forestia is doable solo (wouldn't advise it unless your bored), gold skeleton is beast though. I think most people are wall, arrow builds. I'm pretty sure blast does similar/greater hits like that 21k astute. I'm curious about what sort of damage top end bowguns and brawlers can do. I'm guessing it might not be one big hit but smaller quicker hits. The overall dps might not be far behind those big hits??? For me it's a shame there's sooooo many mages every man and thier dog has a mage! The general feeling is mages are the class to be for damage and aoe, i don't think thats the case. There are so many skills to choose from and i feel alot don't know just how good those skills are. I've almost never had another Knuckles user beat me in DPS in parties, if they do its by a tiny amount and we are switching off. So I guess I'm at least close to top end. The damage difference between me and 2H/Mage is enormous. Their AOE is amazing though as well and they tank and keep hate pretty well so I feel it's a fair trade off. Bows tend to out damage Bowguns. That said their damage is a good bit higher than Knuckles, but also a good bit lower than 2H/Mage. AOE wise I would say its Mage=2H>Knuckles. If you have a support with MP Recharge Aura then it's 2H>Knuckles>Mage. Mages are definitely common though as they are easier to do higher damage with. I don't think there are as many mages as you are making it sound though haha. I see a lot of most classes besides Archer.
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Post by nebula on Aug 30, 2015 18:54:22 GMT
The 2h I think will end up the top dps unless they make another insanely high damage class(which they probably will),what meow said is true tho, almost EVERYONE has a Mage, it's ridiculous, I hope it bites them back later on if their dps falls behind everyone else's, I love the Mage class in general MMO's but the Mage in Toram just sit back, run away if the boss gets too close and watches it die cuz it can't reach them with wall out all the time, who knows tho, maybe it'll change.I don't know why but I feel as if the dagger tree in general will be a diamond in the rust, I feel as if it will have potential later on and maybe catch up in dps in comparison to the rest of the classes, I doubt Toram will just make it dead weight for skill points.
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