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Post by Jeancarlo on Apr 8, 2015 15:29:40 GMT
But those are not auto attacks o.o It's auto attack class not auto attack damage though. Sword tempest is usually used for auto attack damage as well(except in the case of the very well geared). Since there seems to be some confusion Skill Use (sans Buff) != AA Pretty sure I was clear on first and subsequent posts, lol. We can discuss Semi AA with skill use, In Another Thread...
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Post by Kirin。 on Apr 8, 2015 15:41:02 GMT
Hmm gladiator tempest buff is just too OP(well they worked their ass for it so its ok )
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JunJunPow
Member
Are we gonna ride the sun home?
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Post by JunJunPow on Apr 8, 2015 15:43:19 GMT
This would be a very broad topic to bring up, as the numbers you see popping out of your screens can be deceiving. It wouldn't be fair to compare a sub-optimal setup, say an average-geared Sniper/Enchanter to an optimal Ninja with Fike or a Glad with 2s Tengu. There would also be other factors like elemental advantage and the growing number of autoskill effects on gears (a class may outdamage another class on Mob A with this specific equipment set but not on Mob B and so on). The only true quantifiable unit of measure for this is kill speed (which i still think would be biased and inconsistent), so probably have anyone post their times on Megas or whatever with just AA's. IDK if you would count elemental boosts out though. Maybe including how they are with optimal gear and how they are with crap gear? It mostly comes down to: Crap Gear: Gladiator and Sniper will mop the floor with everyone. Monk will do okay. Enchanter and Ninja will basically do no damage. Optimal Gear: Gladiator will mop the floor with everyone. Ninjas follow them. Snipers follow closely. Monks follow closely(possibly higher if it's a higher DEF mob). Enchanters follow closely after that(Except for high MDEF stuff, then they lose by a lot). So really the only class that really benefits from gear more than others is Ninja. Enchanter benefits a lot too though even though it will still be outmatched by everyone pretty much. Not quite. Crap gear isn't really a choice if you're aiming for the highest auto attack damage, you would always have to think top-tier gearing. You give way too much credit to Glads as they can neglect AGI because of berserk, but without it other "natural" auto-attacking classes can keep up if not do more. Give a chanter a slotted reduce bangle or boost ring and 2s elemental gears that have innate autos (that is optimal for me) and it would compete with glads with very specific set of mobs. Ever considered an autoskill type claw monk with full autoskill set on high def mobs? Or a full elemental max slot Fiked sniper doing its anti-element? Give assassins or even paladins max aspd and anti-light/dark element gear versus light/dark mobs. Comparing optimal vs optimal it would still be very subjective and would still provide you with different results. A good-for-all type of build would clearly lose dps-wise on a specialized type versus specific monsters but would be superior in terms of versatility. I'll say it repeatedly, there is no absolute "best" in this game (as we are not even counting in survavibility, how could you deal dps when you're dead) and in the end it all boils down on how you want to play the game.
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Post by Jeancarlo on Apr 8, 2015 17:06:04 GMT
I'll say it repeatedly, there is no absolute "best" in this game ( as we are not even counting in survavibility, how could you deal dps when you're dead) and in the end it all boils down on how you want to play the game. Not really. It's a fairly simple thread question lol: As in not counting Anything else other than Damage Over Time with no Skill use. based on some of the more... on topic answers here, it Is possible to get an absolute best, given the limitations on the question. It;s just that some people prefers to ignore that limitation and go off on their own ideas/definitions.
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Post by ManaKhe on Apr 8, 2015 22:11:31 GMT
Maybe including how they are with optimal gear and how they are with crap gear? It mostly comes down to: Crap Gear: Gladiator and Sniper will mop the floor with everyone. Monk will do okay. Enchanter and Ninja will basically do no damage. Optimal Gear: Gladiator will mop the floor with everyone. Ninjas follow them. Snipers follow closely. Monks follow closely(possibly higher if it's a higher DEF mob). Enchanters follow closely after that(Except for high MDEF stuff, then they lose by a lot). So really the only class that really benefits from gear more than others is Ninja. Enchanter benefits a lot too though even though it will still be outmatched by everyone pretty much. Not quite. Crap gear isn't really a choice if you're aiming for the highest auto attack damage, you would always have to think top-tier gearing. You give way too much credit to Glads as they can neglect AGI because of berserk, but without it other "natural" auto-attacking classes can keep up if not do more. Give a chanter a slotted reduce bangle or boost ring and 2s elemental gears that have innate autos (that is optimal for me) and it would compete with glads with very specific set of mobs. Ever considered an autoskill type claw monk with full autoskill set on high def mobs? Or a full elemental max slot Fiked sniper doing its anti-element? Give assassins or even paladins max aspd and anti-light/dark element gear versus light/dark mobs. Comparing optimal vs optimal it would still be very subjective and would still provide you with different results. A good-for-all type of build would clearly lose dps-wise on a specialized type versus specific monsters but would be superior in terms of versatility. I'll say it repeatedly, there is no absolute "best" in this game (as we are not even counting in survavibility, how could you deal dps when you're dead) and in the end it all boils down on how you want to play the game. Optimal Gladiator gear will do around 40k+ Double Attacks at a very high rate and have WoL while attacking twice per second. I'd say they are "natural" auto attackers with Berserk and Sword Tempest, they just don't need AGI like the other auto attackers too, which is a bonus for them. This would probably average around 80-100k depending on the mob/boss or more. I've never seen any auto attacking class come anywhere near this amount aside from Ninja with Empedracule 2 and using DOC to make up for the small numbers. Why would you use Fike on a Sniper instead of just using Fast Shot? In that case you could also use it on Gladiator lol. I'd consider Fike the unnatural equip to not take into account as their are so few of that xtal floating around lol. Damage-wise Gladiator is the best by a good bit, I feel like it would be easy to see that. There are "best" classes at certain things. Enchanter+Paladin are the clear best tanks, Assassin+Geo Monk are the clear highest single target DPS(they can do a clear 50k+ DPS more than everyone else can, although it's overkill lol). An overall class doesn't exist though.
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Post by ManaKhe on Apr 8, 2015 22:25:52 GMT
I'll say it repeatedly, there is no absolute "best" in this game ( as we are not even counting in survavibility, how could you deal dps when you're dead) and in the end it all boils down on how you want to play the game. Not really. It's a fairly simple thread question lol: As in not counting Anything else other than Damage Over Time with no Skill use. based on some of the more... on topic answers here, it Is possible to get an absolute best, given the limitations on the question. It;s just that some people prefers to ignore that limitation and go off on their own ideas/definitions. Counting buffs, considering Berserk and Tempest are buffs(or you could remove Tempest I guess if you want), Gladiator still wins. Ninja is completely out of the picture at the top. So Gladiator>Sniper>Monk>Enchanter/Ninja.
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JunJunPow
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Are we gonna ride the sun home?
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Post by JunJunPow on Apr 9, 2015 0:16:22 GMT
I'll say it repeatedly, there is no absolute "best" in this game ( as we are not even counting in survavibility, how could you deal dps when you're dead) and in the end it all boils down on how you want to play the game. Not really. It's a fairly simple thread question lol: As in not counting Anything else other than Damage Over Time with no Skill use. based on some of the more... on topic answers here, it Is possible to get an absolute best, given the limitations on the question. It;s just that some people prefers to ignore that limitation and go off on their own ideas/definitions. So i see it's off topic to point out how people would gear differently just to outdo someone at a specific situation. Some classes, mind you, can have higher AAs with suicidal builds but of course we like to keep it "simple". So..berserk-spamming Glad then?
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JunJunPow
Member
Are we gonna ride the sun home?
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Post by JunJunPow on Apr 9, 2015 0:26:24 GMT
Why would you use Fike on a Sniper instead of just using Fast Shot? In that case you could also use it on Gladiator lol. I'd consider Fike the unnatural equip to not take into account as their are so few of that xtal floating around lol. Damage-wise Gladiator is the best by a good bit, I feel like it would be easy to see that. There are "best" classes at certain things. Enchanter+Paladin are the clear best tanks, Assassin+Geo Monk are the clear highest single target DPS(they can do a clear 50k+ DPS more than everyone else can, although it's overkill lol). An overall class doesn't exist though. I wouldn't call Berserk types a "natural" AA if they can't do it 100% of the time (i.e. if it has no MP then screw AA) same goes for Fast Shot. Fike is an always-on berserk and it's available, so why not? Enchanter's damage is subjective, it could out-DPS a Glad on certain mobs with certain elements. The fact that a class is better on "certain things" just proves that there is no absolute best otherwise everyone would be that class and we would not have a game to play.
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Post by ManaKhe on Apr 9, 2015 0:45:27 GMT
Why would you use Fike on a Sniper instead of just using Fast Shot? In that case you could also use it on Gladiator lol. I'd consider Fike the unnatural equip to not take into account as their are so few of that xtal floating around lol. Damage-wise Gladiator is the best by a good bit, I feel like it would be easy to see that. There are "best" classes at certain things. Enchanter+Paladin are the clear best tanks, Assassin+Geo Monk are the clear highest single target DPS(they can do a clear 50k+ DPS more than everyone else can, although it's overkill lol). An overall class doesn't exist though. I wouldn't call Berserk types a "natural" AA if they can't do it 100% of the time (i.e. if it has no MP then screw AA) same goes for Fast Shot. Fike is an always-on berserk and it's available, so why not? Enchanter's damage is subjective, it could out-DPS a Glad on certain mobs with certain elements. The fact that a class is better on "certain things" just proves that there is no absolute best otherwise everyone would be that class and we would not have a game to play. Enchanters just plain will not touch Gladiator damage ever, no matter the mob, unless that mob has ridiculous amounts of DEF and doesn't have ridiculous MDEF to go along with it, which I don't know of any mobs/bosses like that. Glads can take advantage of elements as well and better than Enchanters can in fact. If an optimal Enchanter does half the damage a Gladiator does they are doing good with auto attacks. They don't even compete with Gladiators. You can't use the no MP factor, cause then you could say other classes can't use buffs either, which is included in the original post. Also it's pretty easy to keep both Fast Shot and Berserk up MP wise. Same with Rush. It's a natural thing they can do and will do if auto attacking. Interfike is extremely rare and almost I know people who have had it and don't keep using it. It also lowers ATK, MATK, Melee Res, and Magic Res by 10%, makes your MP, heal recovery, and item recovery all 1, and cuts hit and Crit rate in half. If any class has a natural Berserk skill they shouldn't touch Interfike ever. I've seen Ninjas use it and hate it and not continue using it.
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Post by reins on Apr 9, 2015 1:27:25 GMT
I wouldn't call Berserk types a "natural" AA if they can't do it 100% of the time (i.e. if it has no MP then screw AA) same goes for Fast Shot. Fike is an always-on berserk and it's available, so why not? Enchanter's damage is subjective, it could out-DPS a Glad on certain mobs with certain elements. The fact that a class is better on "certain things" just proves that there is no absolute best otherwise everyone would be that class and we would not have a game to play. Enchanters just plain will not touch Gladiator damage ever, no matter the mob, unless that mob has ridiculous amounts of DEF and doesn't have ridiculous MDEF to go along with it, which I don't know of any mobs/bosses like that. Glads can take advantage of elements as well and better than Enchanters can in fact. If an optimal Enchanter does half the damage a Gladiator does they are doing good with auto attacks. They don't even compete with Gladiators. You can't use the no MP factor, cause then you could say other classes can't use buffs either, which is included in the original post. Also it's pretty easy to keep both Fast Shot and Berserk up MP wise. Same with Rush. It's a natural thing they can do and will do if auto attacking. Interfike is extremely rare and almost I know people who have had it and don't keep using it. It also lowers ATK, MATK, Melee Res, and Magic Res by 10%, makes your MP, heal recovery, and item recovery all 1, and cuts hit and Crit rate in half. If any class has a natural Berserk skill they shouldn't touch Interfike ever. I've seen Ninjas use it and hate it and not continue using it. bruh just use mp+% and tech ability on ur equipment ur fike setup will be fine for the mp thing just use cmo or alenhat or legal cloak later ull like it
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Post by ManaKhe on Apr 9, 2015 6:20:55 GMT
Enchanters just plain will not touch Gladiator damage ever, no matter the mob, unless that mob has ridiculous amounts of DEF and doesn't have ridiculous MDEF to go along with it, which I don't know of any mobs/bosses like that. Glads can take advantage of elements as well and better than Enchanters can in fact. If an optimal Enchanter does half the damage a Gladiator does they are doing good with auto attacks. They don't even compete with Gladiators. You can't use the no MP factor, cause then you could say other classes can't use buffs either, which is included in the original post. Also it's pretty easy to keep both Fast Shot and Berserk up MP wise. Same with Rush. It's a natural thing they can do and will do if auto attacking. Interfike is extremely rare and almost I know people who have had it and don't keep using it. It also lowers ATK, MATK, Melee Res, and Magic Res by 10%, makes your MP, heal recovery, and item recovery all 1, and cuts hit and Crit rate in half. If any class has a natural Berserk skill they shouldn't touch Interfike ever. I've seen Ninjas use it and hate it and not continue using it. bruh just use mp+% and tech ability on ur equipment ur fike setup will be fine for the mp thing just use cmo or alenhat or legal cloak later ull like it As this is sort of off topic I don't wanna go into it too much, but it also has the ATK and MATK-10%. If a class already has their own form of attack interval reduction its dumb to use this xtal.
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Post by reins on Apr 9, 2015 6:38:14 GMT
bruh just use mp+% and tech ability on ur equipment ur fike setup will be fine for the mp thing just use cmo or alenhat or legal cloak later ull like it As this is sort of off topic I don't wanna go into it too much, but it also has the ATK and MATK-10%. If a class already has their own form of attack interval reduction its dumb to use this xtal. oh sory i mean for nin and im off topic e.e, im using one btw actually its nice when u can hit 4 times every 2sec everytime just it =~='
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Post by Capicuo on Apr 9, 2015 7:55:44 GMT
Gladiator + ◇Warrior of Light + Berseker + some MP pots + Elemental swords = Why the hell r u even discussing it?
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Post by Jeancarlo on Apr 9, 2015 15:38:30 GMT
Gladiator + ◇Warrior of Light + Berseker + some MP pots + Elemental swords = Why the hell r u even discussing it? LOL Because then you are Spamming A Skill? Anyway, locking this guys since the recent posts are just plain off topic lol.
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Post by Capicuo on Apr 9, 2015 15:52:11 GMT
Gladiator + ◇Warrior of Light + Berseker + some MP pots + Elemental swords = Why the hell r u even discussing it? LOL Because then you are Spamming A Skill? Anyway, locking this guys since the recent posts are just plain off topic lol. Oh no, sorry. Just for autoattacks.
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