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Post by HawkEyè5 on Feb 17, 2015 15:38:07 GMT
I've been crunching numbers occasionally now to figure out which is better. And it all comes down to simply one thing. Which one can you get to the highest extra +% value.
So let me explain this something is really obvious. The way the damage output is setup for atk and crt damage is pretty much equal. If you hit a solid base damage of 2000, max CRT and equal gear for atk or crt +% gear.
All that happens is you switch the area being multiplied.
Atk: (2000x1.5)(2.78)=8340
Crt: (2000)(2.78x1.5)=8340
Currently I think atk +% gear and xtals are higher combined with melee+ gear then the CRT +% gear and xtals.
Edit*
Your white damage can be calculate by {(atk)+(weapon atk)+(lvl)-(monster's lvl)-(monster's def)}.
Your orange damage will be calculate by (white damage)x{1.5+(CRT/200)}x{1+(%cri damage from equipment and skills)}.
Edit: Thanks to namitsuki correcting my math error my first point was proven and slightly enforced. If your goal is to just have your ATK stat as high as possible to increase max damage like me, then this all will matter to you.
With the addition of melee+ it has the possibility to bypass negative factors due to mob level and mob defense.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 17, 2015 15:52:42 GMT
The problem why people do not understand which one is better is because they have this formula in mind:
ATK = white damage
Im sorry but it is not as simple as that.
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Post by Eyrie Malevoire on Feb 17, 2015 16:08:12 GMT
It depends on the boss/mobs you fight. Boss having high def need high atk equipments while boss with less def(like Isurugi) is better to fight with more crit equipments. The most puzzling part of this one is really hard which, how many atk/crt equipments should I use to gain the highest attack I can dealt to my opponent. Also, Ninja's doc(dance of clones) gains better damage having more crit than atk in some other opponents(obviously not against high def bosses/mobs).
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Post by HawkEyè5 on Feb 17, 2015 16:15:48 GMT
The problem why people do not understand which one is better is because they have this formula in mind: ATK = white damage Im sorry but it is not as simple as that. Yea thats why I thought it would be better to say damage than attack. Also Eyrie Malevoire class is a big part in which way you should go with this. I meant to put that in there but forgot >_<
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 17, 2015 16:35:57 GMT
The problem why people do not understand which one is better is because they have this formula in mind: ATK = white damage Im sorry but it is not as simple as that. Yea thats why I thought it would be better to say damage than attack. Also Eyrie Malevoire class is a big part in which way you should go with this. I meant to put that in there but forgot >_< Now that you added the formula, It Is clear to see why they are not equal and that they are situational so there will never be a clear answer as to which Is better.
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Post by GaucheXI on Feb 17, 2015 20:27:53 GMT
Maaaath D:
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Post by HawkEyè5 on Feb 17, 2015 20:28:32 GMT
Its not really that hard. This only really gets difficult for non spell burst or crit chance devoted classes. If you're DPS your going to multiply either white or orange by the +% no matter if its crt or atk.
If you hit 1500 white damage on a mob your either going to add 750 DMG with 50% atk gear or 2085 CRT DMG with 50% CRT gear. But the thing is no matter which way you'll end up with a total max of damage for 1 hit of CRT at 6225. So by this logic all it means it that you just need to increase the +% as high as possible.and if your class doesn't rely on high CRT rate then you won't need CRT +% gear.
If I'm wrong please correct me.
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Post by Tilt*Madara on Feb 17, 2015 20:49:47 GMT
This is just like saying whats better out of ATK and MATK, whats the best class, etc. Both have a diff purpose.
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Post by HawkEyè5 on Feb 17, 2015 23:04:15 GMT
All the above points out that if your a "dps" that has CRT as one of its stats to max and you are looking for more damage then atk +% and CRT +% will equal out to the same damage with the same percentage.
So whichever one can go higher would add more attack. None of this is saying one is better than the other.
Comparing atk and matk is like apples and watermelons.
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Post by Tilt*Madara on Feb 17, 2015 23:09:18 GMT
I've been crunching numbers occasionally now to figure out which is better. And it all comes down to simply one thing. Which one can you get to the highest extra +% value. So let me explain this something is really obvious. The way the damage output is setup for atk and crt damage is pretty much equal. If you hit a solid base damage of 2000, max CRT and equal gear for atk or crt +% gear. All that happens is you switch the area being multiplied. Atk: (2000x1.5)(2.78)=8340 Crt: (2000)(2.78x1.5)=8340 Currently I think atk +% gear and xtals are higher combined with melee+ gear then the CRT +% gear and xtals. Edit* Your white damage can be calculate by {(atk)+(weapon atk)+(lvl)-(monster's lvl)-(monster's def)}. Your orange damage will be calculate by (white damage)x{1.5+(CRT/200)}x{1+(%cri damage from equipment and skills)}.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 17, 2015 23:10:53 GMT
Its not really that hard. This only really gets difficult for non spell burst or crit chance devoted classes. if you're DPS your going to multiply either white or orange by the +% no matter if its crt or atk. If you hit 1500 white damage on a mob your either going to add 750 DMG with 50% atk gear or 2085 CRT DMG with 50% CRT gear. But the thing is no matter which way you'll end up with a total max of damage for 1 hit of CRT at 6225. So by this logic all it means it that you just need to increase the +% as high as possible.and if your class doesn't rely on high CRT rate then you won't need CRT +% gear. If I'm wrong please correct me. Normal dmg = atk + weap atk + lvl - mob lvl - mob def + random number
only the blue part of the formula gets +50% when you use atk +% whereas crt +50% will affect all of It
i hope this explains It
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Post by HawkEyè5 on Feb 17, 2015 23:41:12 GMT
Its not really that hard. This only really gets difficult for non spell burst or crit chance devoted classes. if you're DPS your going to multiply either white or orange by the +% no matter if its crt or atk. If you hit 1500 white damage on a mob your either going to add 750 DMG with 50% atk gear or 2085 CRT DMG with 50% CRT gear. But the thing is no matter which way you'll end up with a total max of damage for 1 hit of CRT at 6225. So by this logic all it means it that you just need to increase the +% as high as possible.and if your class doesn't rely on high CRT rate then you won't need CRT +% gear. If I'm wrong please correct me. Normal dmg = atk + weap atk + lvl - mob lvl - mob def + random number
only the blue part of the formula gets +50% when you use atk +% whereas crt +50% will affect all of It
i hope this explains Itthanks for correction Due to this ^^ I redid the math and CRT wins out mathematically by a 3%-5% margin at 2000 atk and 11%-14% margin at 3000 atk. Atk+% is more linear as to Crt+% is more exponential. CRT gear becomes effectively better past 2500 atk.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 18, 2015 0:12:10 GMT
What I can tell for certain is that the formula suggests that cerberus will beat all elem +10% xtals (provided that damage is based on crit)
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Post by HawkEyè5 on Feb 25, 2015 6:31:39 GMT
So hears what I've concluded about why definitely even with all the crazy factors CRT+% gear set is best. To start off there is a condition. The condition being you must start at 2500 base atk or higher so atk+% works greater below this base atk. After hitting 2500 base atk pretty much your atk+% gear is going to start to plateau. So let's setup an scenario @ a high level to prove my point. Stats/Numbers ATK:2500 Lvl:260 Weapon Atk:175+9 Mob level:280 Mob defense:300 RGN:100 CRT:300 Attribute Coefficient:0.2 Physical Power:100 Equation {ATK + weapon ATK value + own Lv- enemy Lv- enemy DEF + (random numbers)} × (1+ attribute coefficient) + (physical power) {2500 + 321 + 260 - 280 - 300 + (100)} × (1+ 0.2) + (100)=3221.2 We will assume you're testing a 50% increase for both +% sets. Atk+50% White:4440.4 Critical:13,321.2 CRT+50% White:3221.2 Critical:14,495.4 That's an 8.814% difference in damage. Now since I've been researching this like mad I've found a few loopholes for atk+% to surpass CRT+% and that's is if JP wiki's physical power=melee. With melee+ you would pretty much be able to bypass the Level and mob def part of equation. *Main Point* The choice is not which on to go full atk or crt set but rather what the majority should be. Having a mixed gear set is your best option.
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Namitsuki
Member
Loving the Island Stalls. Good bye Rokoko.
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Post by Namitsuki on Feb 25, 2015 14:29:07 GMT
So hears what I've concluded about why definitely even with all the crazy factors CRT+% gear set is best. To start off there is a condition. The condition being you must start at 2500 base atk or higher so atk+% works greater below this base atk. After hitting 2500 base atk pretty much your atk+% gear is going to start to plateau. So let's setup an scenario @ a high level to prove my point. Stats/Numbers ATK:2500 Lvl:260 Weapon Atk:175+9 Mob level:280 Mob defense:300 RGN:100 CRT:300 Attribute Coefficient:0.2 Physical Power:100 Equation {ATK + weapon ATK value + own Lv- enemy Lv- enemy DEF + (random numbers)} × (1+ attribute coefficient) + (physical power) {2500 + 321 + 260 - 280 - 300 + (100)} × (1+ 0.2) + (100)=3221.2 We will assume you're testing a 50% increase for both +% sets. Atk+50% White:4440.4 Critical:13,321.2 CRT+50% White:3221.2 Critical:14,495.4 That's an 8.814% difference in damage. Now since I've been researching this like mad I've found a few loopholes for atk+% to surpass CRT+% and that's is if JP wiki's physical power=melee. With melee+ you would pretty much be able to bypass the Level and mob def part of equation. *Main Point* The choice is not which on to go full atk or crt set but rather what the majority should be. Having a mixed gear set is your best option. Your math for ATK% is off numbers should be White: 4721.2 Critical: 14163.6 That makes the difference in damage be around 2% Doesn't really affect the conclusion, just my pet peeve ^-^
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