Roxzen
Community Contributor
Goodbye :) Thanks for the memories Iruna, the Forums was an awesome place!
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Post by Roxzen on Nov 4, 2014 20:29:28 GMT
For Killua and Sinner a thread just for the topic you two spurred up. Why? because I think its a pretty cool topic Basically the question is: In your own opinion, which class is more efficient at lvling with AoE? High Wizard or Bishop with Nemesis.
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Killua
Member
Baby I'm preying on you tonight~ Hunt you down eat you alive *Q*
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Post by Killua on Nov 4, 2014 20:33:10 GMT
I think at lvl 210+ bishop is more efferent but under 210 high wizard is more efficient. Why? Prove me wrong and I'll tell ya o.o
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Post by Sinner on Nov 4, 2014 21:02:49 GMT
Your basis for the reason why is what? Higher damage? More demand at aoe megas? AoE Megas isn't even 'AoE' anymore. It's a party full of AoE players TRYING to AoE, and failing, because of the crowded area. And in EVERY AoE party, though there is a High Wizard 180+, what else is present? A 180+ AoE Bishop.
When it comes down to it, the only parties High Wiz will most likely be asked to join that a bishop most likely wont is a >single< target party where all the jobs are >single< target DPS. Use of the High Wizard? MP and Thors.
Now, let's compare 3 popular leveling spots.
Megaroches (Yes, a bishop can solo here before 200+ with HP Gear, though taking a while), High Ent, and Balor.
Bishop
-Solo- - 15-20k damage typically in HP Gear - 6-7k MP which brings about 100 points of mana per bless - Higher HP, so takes more hits - Doesn't need to sacrifice HP to regain Mana. Just rest if needed, only takes about 30 seconds to recover full MP as bishop.
-Party- - Heal Party members - Buff every few minutes - Damage - Wont need to be MPed often IF at all.
High Wizard
-Solo- - Lower HP/MP - Higher MP Cost - No Buff Regen - No resurrection, meaning if they DIE and REVIVE by DRAIN, they get >Exhaust<. Drain 1? 30 second sit time. But uk, High Wizards use drain 2 since it's given to them at 120. 1 minute sit time. No killing. - Have to keep blizzard on mob. Takes about 5-6 seconds to cast if Max Dex. Longer in HP Gear if they use that. - Have to Drain, MP, and Run.
-Party- - MP party every minute or so. - If no bishop is present (usually only single target parties where ninja tanks), heal the tank if they die. - Maintain DPS even when having to break DPS more often for party needs.
Personally, High Wizard has it harder. They don't gain the edge in leveling again for a while either after 180. They get it back maybe around 220/240 when they get mana stock/imperial because then they can single target fast as hell, while solo, and be able to level with no issues. But before then, I'm sorry, but Bishop has it easier. If they're both in good AoE parties, they'll level at the same rate. If they're solo, High Wizard will fall behind. It's easy to think High Wizard can level faster when on the outside looking in, but when you've played both jobs and know the limits of each, then you'd know Bishop is honestly easier.
Only thing that's important once you understand that is which you have more fun with? Because then that brings dedication as a factor in leveling speed. But fact of the matter was we were talking about 2 different people, playing the opposite class. Dedication cant be factored properly.
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Post by Sinner on Nov 4, 2014 21:03:49 GMT
And yes that is a light or basic way of explaining both jobs basic functions when grinding. There's no need to look at any other points than those.
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Post by Sinner on Nov 4, 2014 21:08:49 GMT
Oh and referring to Killua's post on the other thread about Bishop not gaining low MP cost before 220.
Here's our attack skill, straight from the JP Wiki. Ask any bishop to verify this, as well.
Nemesis (range attack) Large magic that gives the judgment of God. I will be a large number of abnormal state at the same time and subject to attack its surroundings. Decrease in incidence is the boss. SLv1 MP120 Quest [skill acquisition trial!] (Lv180) clear ※ state abnormal additions range kind of state abnormal only when entrainment paralysis, Stan, darkness, fire ※ damage calculation = {(MATK × 9.5 -? enemy MDEF) + MATK × random (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) ÷ 100} × (such as 1 + attribute + magic power) ※ necessary skill delay 0 seconds (DEX256?), Need casting time -?% (OrDEX256?)
Here's High Wizard's 4 Great Magic Spells, straight from the wiki.
Meteor Storm (range attack) Summon the meteorite to attack the target and its vicinity. The attack at the same time also to the monster that PT members are fighting, and the enemy to fire state. SLv1 MP380 High Wizard job change during learning ※ necessary skills delay -1 seconds, need casting time -140%
Earthquake (range attack) To generate the earthquake to attack the target with. But can be in paralysis or unconscious, triggered when, yourself a little suffer. SLv1 MP500 High Wizard job change during learning ※ When triggered, HP consumption (VIT + 50) ※ necessary skills delay -2.5or3 seconds, need casting time -110% (orDEX256)
Thor hammer I attack the subject in the hammer of a huge thunder. Subject it is possible to be in the dark state with probability. Short is most casting time in large magic. SLv1 MP310 Quest [Hammer of Ikadzuchi] (Lv160) clear ※ necessary skills delay -2.5 seconds (at DEX256), need casting time -110% (orDEX256)
Blizzard (PT range attacks) The object causing the snowstorm I attack more than once. enemy that fellow is fighting also be frozen by attacking at the same time. Fixed hit rate, up to 6 hits. SLv1 MP410 Quest [! skill acquisition trial] (Lv180) clear ※ fixed hit rate average expected hit number 4 (1 ~ 6hit occurrence) in the dependent ※ DEX1 to DEX value, average in DEX400 expected to hit number 5 (4 ~ 6hit occurrence) ※ necessary skills delay -2 seconds, need casting time -100%
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Killua
Member
Baby I'm preying on you tonight~ Hunt you down eat you alive *Q*
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Post by Killua on Nov 4, 2014 21:53:49 GMT
Oh and referring to Killua's post on the other thread about Bishop not gaining low MP cost before 220. Here's our attack skill, straight from the JP Wiki. Ask any bishop to verify this, as well. Nemesis (range attack) Large magic that gives the judgment of God. I will be a large number of abnormal state at the same time and subject to attack its surroundings. Decrease in incidence is the boss. SLv1 MP120 Quest [skill acquisition trial!] (Lv180) clear ※ state abnormal additions range kind of state abnormal only when entrainment paralysis, Stan, darkness, fire ※ damage calculation = {(MATK × 9.5 -? enemy MDEF) + MATK × random (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) ÷ 100} × (such as 1 + attribute + magic power) ※ necessary skill delay 0 seconds (DEX256?), Need casting time -?% (OrDEX256?) Here's High Wizard's 4 Great Magic Spells, straight from the wiki. Meteor Storm (range attack) Summon the meteorite to attack the target and its vicinity. The attack at the same time also to the monster that PT members are fighting, and the enemy to fire state. SLv1 MP380 High Wizard job change during learning ※ necessary skills delay -1 seconds, need casting time -140% Earthquake (range attack) To generate the earthquake to attack the target with. But can be in paralysis or unconscious, triggered when, yourself a little suffer. SLv1 MP500 High Wizard job change during learning ※ When triggered, HP consumption (VIT + 50) ※ necessary skills delay -2.5or3 seconds, need casting time -110% (orDEX256) Thor hammer I attack the subject in the hammer of a huge thunder. Subject it is possible to be in the dark state with probability. Short is most casting time in large magic. SLv1 MP310 Quest [Hammer of Ikadzuchi] (Lv160) clear ※ necessary skills delay -2.5 seconds (at DEX256), need casting time -110% (orDEX256) Blizzard (PT range attacks) The object causing the snowstorm I attack more than once. enemy that fellow is fighting also be frozen by attacking at the same time. Fixed hit rate, up to 6 hits. SLv1 MP410 Quest [! skill acquisition trial] (Lv180) clear ※ fixed hit rate average expected hit number 4 (1 ~ 6hit occurrence) in the dependent ※ DEX1 to DEX value, average in DEX400 expected to hit number 5 (4 ~ 6hit occurrence) ※ necessary skills delay -2 seconds, need casting time -100% This strait from wiki proves high wizard is more capable at leveling than bishop. Bishop have 1 aoe skill that takes away 120mp. While high wizard mp usage is extremely high they have more of a variety of area of effect attacks. Which is more efficient for an aoe party. Additionally a bishop is mainly compatible with the Paladin and High Wizard classes. High wizard on the other hand is compatible with all classes because all classes use mp. Also the simple fact that you only see bishops leveling at Megaroche, Naga, and Ent clearly shows that these are the only areas where they are needed for leveling. Where as high wizard as a mp healing class is highly requested in aoe pt. Btw bishops are rarely even seen at high ents. And not just me but everyone at mega knows people ask for high wizards a lot for frequently than bishops -3- I rest my case
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Killua
Member
Baby I'm preying on you tonight~ Hunt you down eat you alive *Q*
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Post by Killua on Nov 4, 2014 22:01:00 GMT
That moment when I barely notice I'm disputing with Prayerz o.o dahell is up wit dat xD
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Post by Mahouko on Nov 4, 2014 22:13:25 GMT
Capped with H wiz (250) few weeks ago (EQ for life), Bish 240+. I can only speak for soloing, but H wiz faster with an out of party minstrel, Bish faster alone.
Edit - FWIW, Bishop waaaaay more fun imo xD
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Post by Sinner on Nov 4, 2014 22:18:43 GMT
Not even Prayerz ._. Everyone keeps assuming that ._. I'm a friend of his irl whom he got into the game though o.o/
Anyways, on topic, no one mentioned nagas. I never see anyone period at nagas. Lol.
And I see more people looking for Bishops than for High Wizards whenever I step into Megas. And the reason bishops aren't at High Ent anymore? Nommar, Suhar, and Balors are pretty easy for bishop. Especially now that the server isn't lagging from speed hack.
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Post by ryuuj1n on Nov 4, 2014 22:31:42 GMT
Just read through and saw that u guys failed to mention that high wizard can solo mega, i soloed mega before i was a full high wizard and with poor gear, my gear is still poor lol, all thats needed to solo mega for high wizard is drain and thunderbolt. Well now that im full high wizard, i use thors hammer, but still thunderbolt to slow mob attacks meaning i dont have to fear to mp heal my self lol. Takes like 2min to kill mega when only using thunderbolt, but like 1 and half min with thors hammer.
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Roxzen
Community Contributor
Goodbye :) Thanks for the memories Iruna, the Forums was an awesome place!
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Post by Roxzen on Nov 5, 2014 0:16:49 GMT
Just read through and saw that u guys failed to mention that high wizard can solo mega, i soloed mega before i was a full high wizard and with poor gear, my gear is still poor lol, all thats needed to solo mega for high wizard is drain and thunderbolt. Well now that im full high wizard, i use thors hammer, but still thunderbolt to slow mob attacks meaning i dont have to fear to mp heal my self lol. Takes like 2min to kill mega when only using thunderbolt, but like 1 and half min with thors hammer. talking about utilizing AoE for the lvling not single target skills owo multiple megas owo
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Post by ryuuj1n on Nov 5, 2014 3:52:38 GMT
Just read through and saw that u guys failed to mention that high wizard can solo mega, i soloed mega before i was a full high wizard and with poor gear, my gear is still poor lol, all thats needed to solo mega for high wizard is drain and thunderbolt. Well now that im full high wizard, i use thors hammer, but still thunderbolt to slow mob attacks meaning i dont have to fear to mp heal my self lol. Takes like 2min to kill mega when only using thunderbolt, but like 1 and half min with thors hammer. talking about utilizing AoE for the lvling not single target skills owo multiple megas owo I was just saying, since it sounded like it became a ”who can level faster” lol.
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Post by Sinner on Nov 5, 2014 4:18:41 GMT
talking about utilizing AoE for the lvling not single target skills owo multiple megas owo I was just saying, since it sounded like it became a ”who can level faster” lol. That's what it is exactly.
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Post by Att1tude on Nov 5, 2014 16:56:59 GMT
Tldr; i claim 200+bish and 3 hwiz with decent spawns is most effective aoe dmgwise And one blizzards 24/7 or even 4 hwiz,draining could just be a lil difficult
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Post by ManaKhe on Nov 7, 2014 17:50:21 GMT
No one mentions Nommars for 180+ High Wizards. They kill them very fast. Megaroches shouldn't really be taken into account anymore due to the massive overcrowding.
I would say before 180, obviously High Wizard. After 180, Bishop is slightly better. Both classes have it easy at 180+ anyways though.
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