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Post by elyonne on Mar 1, 2019 13:35:29 GMT
Hi, so today I just saw a servant calling another bishop a noob for using limit break on a servant. I'm afraid I've been soloing too much to know beyond the old "don't cast most buffs on ninjas", which is pretty outdated after the job adjustments. Can anyone enlighten me on some of the things to avoid in parties? (Before I Goddess Bless everyone to a one way ticket to town) Edit: Thank you everyone for your information below! I'll just summarise them here for easier reference. Information kindly provided by Undyne, Ravitox, Aza, NightBreeze
*This is not a clear-cut rule and best is to check with whoever is in your party what not to buff!
- Do not use Revelation on Servants who are lv 320 and above. Servants have 2 skills at level 320 called Crazy Tea Party and Calm Tea Party. The buff names are also "limit break", same as Revelation. Their skills rebuff every 2-3 sec and does not override other buffs with the same buff name. As such, Bishop's Revelation will give them a 10 min "limit break" that they cannot overwrite or use their buffs.
- Do not overheal Oath Paladins. Pally has a skill at lv 260 called Knight's Oath. Damage increases with less HP. <To Be Confirmed>
- Do not use Bright Heal on Veleno Monks and remove their poison effect. A good number of Monks uses Veleno Rosa xtal, which increases their dmg when poisoned. Bright Heal removes debuff which won't make the monks too happy. ◇Veleno Rosa: Poison+10% Delay -0.1sec, Additional attack Chance, Dmg up if poisoned (Consumes autoskill)
- Try not to use Lichter on mobs when there are dark element dps in party. Jobs that come to mind are Necromancers and Assassins. This is pretty self explanatory. Lichter turns mobs into dark elements and decreases the dmg done by dark element dps. Pally will be happy though...
- Do not cast Priere and Revelation on Zero High Wizards (lv300-320). (Almost obsolete) HW have a skill at lv 300 called Zero Ray. This skill uses 40% of their MP and they need to cast it as many times as they can within 5 sec. So the idea is that the lesser MP they have, the lesser MP they use, and thus the more times they can cast Zero Ray. I write that it is almost obsolete because HW have Imperial Ray 2 at lv 320 which gives higher dmg without eating the MP.
- Do not use buffs on Ninjas that increases/recover HP when they are cloning with desperate move. (Pretty much obsolete) Buffs in question are Divine Bless, Revelation, Heal, Bright Heal. This only applies to Ninja who are still using clones to survive (which should be pretty rare after balance patch since Ninjas can no longer clone 9 times). Ninjas can create clones using Desperate Move if their HP is less than 10% so any buffs that increase their HP makes it hard to get less than 10% HP. However, there are other moves that can create 3 clones so you should be safe buffing them.
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Post by NightBreeze on Mar 1, 2019 14:15:14 GMT
I don't know why a servant would say that. Limit break doesn't have any negative effect on a servant, afaik. Nor does it override any servant buff.
The only thing that comes to mind is you shouldn't heal a ninja's hp if he's cloning with desperate move (for obvious reasons).
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Post by Undyne on Mar 1, 2019 14:27:37 GMT
I don't know why a servant would say that. Limit break doesn't have any negative effect on a servant, afaik. Nor does it override any servant buff. The only thing that comes to mind is you shouldn't heal a ninja's hp if he's cloning with desperate move (for obvious reasons). In my experience, Limit break overwrites Calm/Mad teaparty buffs. As in, having limit active will not allow them to activate. Idk why xD just my experience with Bish+Serv in pts. *Buff names of Calm+Mad tea party are both "Limit Break" btw. Assuming it doesn't Overwrite other "Limit Break" effects because that would seriously screw with Ench otherwise. Which basically means Bish using Limit= No tea party buffs for 10 or so min.
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Post by elyonne on Mar 1, 2019 14:55:35 GMT
I don't know why a servant would say that. Limit break doesn't have any negative effect on a servant, afaik. Nor does it override any servant buff. The only thing that comes to mind is you shouldn't heal a ninja's hp if he's cloning with desperate move (for obvious reasons). In my experience, Limit break overwrites Calm/Mad teaparty buffs. As in, having limit active will not allow them to activate. Idk why xD just my experience with Bish+Serv in pts. *Buff names of Calm+Mad tea party are both "Limit Break" btw. Assuming it doesn't Overwrite other "Limit Break" effects because that would seriously screw with Ench otherwise. Which basically means Bish using Limit= No tea party buffs for 10 or so min. Thanks for the clarification! That really explains a lot... I have the nagging suspicion that the buffs will overwrite one another though. Kind of like how normal bless will overwrite divine bless and the hp and mp immediately drops. There didn't seem to be any issues when I limit break an enchanter previously though...
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Post by Undyne on Mar 1, 2019 15:45:27 GMT
Issue is, the Tea Party buffs rebuff automatically every 2-3 seconds. With Revalation on Ench, its a one time thing. Their "Limit Break" skill is able to overwrite any other "Limit Break" effect.
With Serv, Sadly their buffs will not Overwrite other buffs of the same name (limit break). It would make Serv a detriment to Ench by removing their main buff constantly for the Tea Party effects. This carries over to Revelation because its the same Buff name as well
I have no clue whether my reasoning behind it is the actual reason xD just know what ive seen in pts with both classes.
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Ravitox
Ravioli Ravioli, give me the formuoli
Editing the assassin gear sets...
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Post by Ravitox on Mar 1, 2019 16:32:39 GMT
There are a few other things I can think of off the top of my head: - Overhealing an Oath Paladin. - Bright healing veleno monks, thus removing their poison effect (not as bad as using Serum from a hunter, but annoying) - Using lichter on light element mobs when there are dark element dps in party - divine blessing the desperate move cloning ninjas (old, but I have seen this after balance too...)
The limit break one is probably much more permanent and annoying, but I would assume it rarely applies to bishops since bishops and 340+ servants usually don't end up in an efficient party.
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Post by Aza on Mar 1, 2019 16:38:54 GMT
Enchanter limit break buff doesn't get rewrited by either bishop revelation or servant tea party.Instead,there will be 2 separate buff with the same name.Never partied both bishop n servant in one pt so idk if I can have 3 limit break buff at the same time lol.
-- When my high wizard was still young,sometimes i asked the bishop in my party to not cast revelation on me,because the buff makes my max mp huge on my zero sets.
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Post by NightBreeze on Mar 1, 2019 17:12:33 GMT
I don't know why a servant would say that. Limit break doesn't have any negative effect on a servant, afaik. Nor does it override any servant buff. The only thing that comes to mind is you shouldn't heal a ninja's hp if he's cloning with desperate move (for obvious reasons). In my experience, Limit break overwrites Calm/Mad teaparty buffs. As in, having limit active will not allow them to activate. Idk why xD just my experience with Bish+Serv in pts. *Buff names of Calm+Mad tea party are both "Limit Break" btw. Assuming it doesn't Overwrite other "Limit Break" effects because that would seriously screw with Ench otherwise. Which basically means Bish using Limit= No tea party buffs for 10 or so min. Oh, didn't know that about the calm/mad tea party buffs. My servant is under lv320 so I don't have those yet... Sounds like a bug, if they can't activate with revelation on. Like the post above says, ench's limit break is not affected by revelation.
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Post by bikini on Mar 7, 2019 1:22:46 GMT
its no a bug, jap blog say cant stack both skills (servant/bish) also i think delay skils are overwritten too.
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Post by Nobody (Retired for now) on Mar 7, 2019 1:29:54 GMT
It's sad that practically based on our skills Asobimo makes Servants and Bishop Enemies... I've played Bishop for Years, and now I have a Servant (I erased my Bishop) And I can say both have their Pros and Contras. But if those skills differences didn't exist having both in a Pt would be even better.
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Post by elyonne on Mar 9, 2019 5:16:47 GMT
It's sad that practically based on our skills Asobimo makes Servants and Bishop Enemies... I've played Bishop for Years, and now I have a Servant (I erased my Bishop) And I can say both have their Pros and Contras. But if those skills differences didn't exist having both in a Pt would be even better. Well, I think it's hard even if the skills don't affect each other... A typical good pt usually consist of Tank, DPS, Mins, and Healer. I don't think that it is very practical to have both Bishops and Servants in a single pt when they have overlapping functions, or 2 Bishops/2 Servants for that matter.
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Ravitox
Ravioli Ravioli, give me the formuoli
Editing the assassin gear sets...
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Post by Ravitox on Mar 9, 2019 18:23:03 GMT
It's sad that practically based on our skills Asobimo makes Servants and Bishop Enemies... I've played Bishop for Years, and now I have a Servant (I erased my Bishop) And I can say both have their Pros and Contras. But if those skills differences didn't exist having both in a Pt would be even better. Both Servant and Bishops definitely have their ups and downs, and I agree that having both in a party is a bad idea if they are both built to fully support. Of course, this is kind of assuming they both are fully geared and well into the end-game. I think that in the end (340+) a servant and a bishop could be a workable (not preferred) duo as long as they know what they are doing, and they both have built to play more than just the support role. For example, if the Servant is a counter-tank, and the bishop builds enough MATK and aoe damage, they can grind mobs very fast and duo quite a few bosses. The thing with two people playing one role is that someone has to give in and play a different role. Both will need to compensate for lack of damage with more gear sets or different stats. Therefore, I will agree with you that this is a very not recommended party combination. It would be interesting for some experienced players to try and work around though ^^. I think it has a higher chance of being decent than the other same-role matches like 2 dmgers or 2 tanks simply because supports are much more well-rounded.
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♪Sumire
Member
Summoner new skills pls *-*
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Post by ♪Sumire on Mar 9, 2019 19:43:17 GMT
Clock rabbit (or is this the name of servants that also decrease delay) Has the samw buff name as bishops quick skill Not sure which one is more beneficial ... As a non servant user ..i have no idea if clock rabbit is a pt buff like quick or its a one per cast thingy
Ninjas who knows how to cancel mp con by clones will be more thanhappy getting all the buffs bishops can offer xD I MEAN EVERYTHING Although for non cmo bug users ..priere and limit is gonna be a hell of a mp consumption combo xD
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Pixie
Member
Profile pic wip by @Acetyl
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Post by Pixie on Mar 14, 2019 19:02:05 GMT
If the buffs stack then a bishop could be a damage dealer easier if they pt with servant but because the restriction you haave to preapprove buffs because some people want to play the way they are used to even in a pt. say if u pt a pally and bishop and servant highnesz blesz would out preform divine bless for pally and help the servant heal better but would hurt the bishops mp pool. So that party even though it would be very effective is now restricted quite a bit. The bishop would need mpcost in their matk set which seems like most dont because this is rare.
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Post by Nobody (Retired for now) on Mar 17, 2019 22:16:32 GMT
I wrote that because Bishops are no longer a full Support class anymore, Nemesis has a good damage + Holy Spike, so Bishop could be a DPS too.
Practically Bishops are kind of a hybrid class: Support+DPS, while Servant is a Full Support class, and our DPS is almost unexistent based on our base class skills, even lower than Minstrels'.
In normal conditions almost nobody would make a PT with both Servant and Bishop in it, but in some cases, (Like MQs) that could happen.
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