Dragsbro
Community Contributor
I'm kind of a necromancer, as in playing with SK is just toying with dead stuff at this point
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Post by Dragsbro on Apr 28, 2016 11:42:10 GMT
I couldn't care less about my HP, and i will be truly happy from being buffed by warcry once new skills will be out *~*
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kms
Community Contributor
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Post by kms on May 9, 2016 7:12:35 GMT
i would say that do not judge a class by poorly geared players. every pt member has a right to use their skills the way they see fit. applies to ninja and gladiators. if they have a problem with warcry, then the simple thing is to let the pt leader decide if they want to let go of one of the players who cant play in a pt.
insist on using all your buffs and let the ninja community know that they need to be prepared for such scenarios. seeing how ninja can make easy money even with a simple beelzenoid farm, they should have the capability to gear for a -110% HP set. Schwartz no-up ganei, ghost ring ganei) is all it takes to have yourself prepared for any buff.
Warcry, bless, life song, limit break, and so on... if you are geared for the occassion, then nothing matters. if the ninja community do not understand about sets of gear for every occassion, then it is their problem.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 11:02:49 GMT
The actual knowledge towards different classes and the ninja class itself is what we are missing right here.
If you are a ninja that has a low budget, but has the knowledge towards classes it is usual that your thinking would be how to temporarily improvise your own HP reduction management and not to rely on the hope that your PT won't cast Warcry (Not only Warcry, but also other skills that affects PT's HP)
Because most ninjas I've noticed today once you got Ninja Set, Slay Mio Sagiri, Slay Ganei for a DOC and youre good to go. Thats how I see our present Ninjas today in short they somewhat lack common sense.
Like the usual issue of being unable to clone after Lv.177+
No offense but this is the word I choose from and has a right to express my opinion.
In addition to this, most ninjas definitely get the "Loner/Solo mentality" that also removes the awareness of possible pitfalls when they belong in a party for instance this undying HP issue.
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Post by quitted on May 9, 2016 15:53:55 GMT
In addition to this, most ninjas definitely get the "Loner/Solo mentality" that also removes the awareness of possible pitfalls when they belong in a party for instance this undying HP issue. although the purpose of this thread is only helping ninja reducing maxhp percentage, but yuhee opinion about delusion of ninja as solo class is actually true and i will show proof. translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://blog.iruna.jp/blog/2010/04/13/above is a the official i-mode version blog entry about introduction of samurai and ninja back in 2010, before android version exist. on that blog entry. it clearly says ninja is intended as rear position class which designed as saboteur/debuffer on enemy strength through their magic skills and cant really endure enemy's attacks. my interpretation of that official blog entry: ninja is actually rear/back position magic-based sabotage/debuff playing class, who have special clone defense shield but they cant handle direct attack that have ailments, only good at handling range/aoe damage. so i hope that could help ninja realise your class is not really a tanker class. so you guys should give chance to knight/gladiator/paladin/beast knight to cast warcry on their party and let them take the front/tanker position
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Post by quitted on May 9, 2016 16:54:14 GMT
ninja class in iruna, reminds me of Ensanguined Shield in final fantasy 12. finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_XII_armoron that game, Ensanguined Shield is a equipment that give 90% evasion rate and if you together with other equipmeent that bosst evasion, if not mistaken,its possible to reach 100% evasion rate (cant remember well) see this video about Ensanguined Shield however, Ensanguined Shield give permanent slow, poison and sap (same like venom status in iruna). my interpretation is ninja in iruna is somewhat like that Ensanguined Shield in ff12, really good at avoiding damage but they have vulnerability pitfall on ailments. you can ask Yazmat about this Ensanguined Shield thing . he said he play this game before. his name Yazmat is actually inspired by a boss named Yiazmat in that game which have 50 million HP finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Yiazmat_(Final_Fantasy_XII)fyi, final fantasy 12. is relased in 2006, at least 2 years ealier before iruna online exist. im not suprise at all if indeed ninja class in iruna inspired by that Ensanguined Shield.
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Yazmat
Community Contributor
Pally Lv351 | Alchy Lv318
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Post by Yazmat on May 9, 2016 17:09:19 GMT
ninja class in iruna, reminds me of Ensanguined Shield in final fantasy 12. finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_XII_armoron that game, Ensanguined Shield is a equipment that give 90% evasion rate and if you together with other equipmeent that bosst evasion, if not mistaken,its possible to reach 100% evasion rate (cant remember well) see this video about Ensanguined Shield however, Ensanguined Shield give permanent slow, poison and sap (same like venom status in iruna). my interpretation is ninja in iruna is somewhat like that Ensanguined Shield in ff12, able to avoid damage but they have vulnerability pitfall on ailments. you can ask Yazmat about this Ensanguined Shield thing . he said he play this game before. his name Yazmat is actually inspired by a boss named Yiazmat in that game which have 50 million HP finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Yiazmat_(Final_Fantasy_XII)fyi, final fantasy 12. is relased in 2006, at least 2 years ealier before iruna online exist. im not suprise at all if indeed ninja class in iruna inspired by that Ensanguined Shield. Sorry never used that shield before but let's just say that avoiding all melee attacks is nice but doesn't make you invincible of course ninjas' clones works with magic attacks but still not invincible... I agree on many points with you... especially the one saying that ninjas are not tanks (and probably will never be)... of course that doesn't mean they can't tank, all classes can tank... just some better than others...
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EP Opheia
Member
Bishop / Dec. 2013-April 2018
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Post by EP Opheia on May 9, 2016 17:43:51 GMT
I have a baby ninja, and yes warcry (don't mind other buffs) does hurt her because I am not fully geared. I own up to it though, and so I usually don't pt people and solo my way around; which I don't mind because I only use her to farm bosses for abilities. -- but I agree with others who say it's not all ninjas. A number of bad apples = the whole ninja community. Yeah, makes sense. ~just my 9 cloned cents on this matter.
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Post by Cerulean on May 9, 2016 19:46:16 GMT
What kms said is right it's a situational thing in certain instances but not every, my ninja can run around with any class and clone fine and for ninjas who struggle I'd suggest to grab an atleta ring to proc HP down by attack so max HP isn't any an issue, but as per saying ninja can't tank or isn't a tank I'd have to disagree, a lot of offensive "ninja" gear has hate+ so they can hold the aggro really well but again I'd be situational because without a resu spam they wouldn't survive some bosses but then again most of the classes you mentioned to be a "tank" would also fail in the same situation, and personally I haven't ran into a "tank" that could keep hate off me, not even just nin either, "tanks" also lose hate to high DPs classes like Geo monk, sniper, assassin and some hwiz. So the whole thought of let a "real tank" be the tank is well... Just a thought, cause it has very little ground to walk on.
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Post by quitted on May 10, 2016 2:24:08 GMT
uh stop giving me about conditional thing to me. yes i know ninjas maybe best tanker if mob doest have ailment.
my intention to point out ninja as not really tanker class is only to prevent more delusion of ninja defensive capability is absolutely superior to other class in all situation & their need to block others from casting buff that nerf their capability to make 9 clones.
i bet if ninja proceed party with less than 9 clones, its possible to stay alive. but in one condition, make sure yourself not become mob/boss's main target.
if you know ninja is destined as not really a front position class like what clearly mentioned in that official i-mode blog, you probably not making big fuss on warcry all the time.
in my straight past 3 mission party, i still receive complain about warcry from ninja although the boss have ailment. clearly still many ninja think they have superior defensive capability to others.
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Post by Cerulean on May 10, 2016 3:18:09 GMT
uh stop giving me about conditional thing to me. yes i know ninjas maybe best tanker if mob doest have ailment.
my intention to point out ninja as not really tanker class is only to prevent more delusion of ninja defensive capability is absolutely superior to other class in all situation & their need to block others from casting buff that nerf their capability to make 9 clones. i bet if ninja proceed party with less than 9 clones, its possible to stay alive. but in one condition, make sure yourself not become mob/boss's main target. if you know ninja is destined as not really a front position class like what clearly mentioned in that official i-mode blog, you probably not making big fuss on warcry all the time. in my straight past 3 mission party, i still receive complain about warcry from ninja although the boss have ailment. clearly still many ninja think they have superior defensive capability to others. That's a bit contradicting, in some cases yeah they are the superior some they aren't, but no class can be labled "best" tank because they all have flaw, and if you really concerned about ninja saying don't use warcry maybe you should not pt ninjas huh? And your main purpose of topic is to suggest alternative ways to reduce HP so they can coinside with classes that buff hp% not who's better tanker, and umode is not the same as eng/JP iruna and how often do people use things for not the intended purpose? That's like saying all monks should be claw type because it's intended to have claw because of mastery, or all enchy be magic sword and not use rod or throw. Holding firm to past declines advances my friend, so maybe you should go back to talking alternatives for hp-% like original post intends n.n
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Post by quitted on May 10, 2016 4:33:32 GMT
uh stop giving me about conditional thing to me. yes i know ninjas maybe best tanker if mob doest have ailment.
my intention to point out ninja as not really tanker class is only to prevent more delusion of ninja defensive capability is absolutely superior to other class in all situation & their need to block others from casting buff that nerf their capability to make 9 clones. i bet if ninja proceed party with less than 9 clones, its possible to stay alive. but in one condition, make sure yourself not become mob/boss's main target. if you know ninja is destined as not really a front position class like what clearly mentioned in that official i-mode blog, you probably not making big fuss on warcry all the time. in my straight past 3 mission party, i still receive complain about warcry from ninja although the boss have ailment. clearly still many ninja think they have superior defensive capability to others. That's a bit contradicting, in some cases yeah they are the superior some they aren't, but no class can be labled "best" tank because they all have flaw, and if you really concerned about ninja saying don't use warcry maybe you should not pt ninjas huh? And your main purpose of topic is to suggest alternative ways to reduce HP so they can coinside with classes that buff hp% not who's better tanker, and umode is not the same as eng/JP iruna and how often do people use things for not the intended purpose? That's like saying all monks should be claw type because it's intended to have claw because of mastery, or all enchy be magic sword and not use rod or throw. Holding firm to past declines advances my friend, so maybe you should go back to talking alternatives for hp-% like original post intends n.n 1."maybe best tanker if mob doest have ailment" and "ninja not really tanker class" is contradicting? i dont get it. both "maybe" and "not really" implying its conditional. whats is contradicting there? 2. whether i should partying with ninja or not is not the issue here. the issue is what ninja do should if they end up partying with knight/gladiator/paladin/beast knight. you know as i mention earlier, some ninja shout lfp and random party pick them up end up partying with knight/gladiator/paladin/beast knight casting warcry in party. so need to anticipate n prepare for that. and another thing is if the mob/boss have ailments; that is they should let knight/gladiator/paladin/beast knight take front position. 3. about that argument about what kind weapon should monk and ench should use. my only comment is: at least they dont complain on warcry buff.4. yes im deviating from original intention of the thread, but yuhee opinoin caught my intention and but it indeed one of contributor of most ninja keep blocking warcry. because they fail to realise their job destined not to be tanker in all situation. their believe their 9 clones is more important than warcry buff in kind of all situatiom, i think they can survive with less than 9 clones, they just need to make sure not to be main target of mob/boss.
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Yazmat
Community Contributor
Pally Lv351 | Alchy Lv318
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Post by Yazmat on May 10, 2016 9:27:54 GMT
That's a bit contradicting, in some cases yeah they are the superior some they aren't, but no class can be labled "best" tank because they all have flaw, and if you really concerned about ninja saying don't use warcry maybe you should not pt ninjas huh? And your main purpose of topic is to suggest alternative ways to reduce HP so they can coinside with classes that buff hp% not who's better tanker, and umode is not the same as eng/JP iruna and how often do people use things for not the intended purpose? That's like saying all monks should be claw type because it's intended to have claw because of mastery, or all enchy be magic sword and not use rod or throw. Holding firm to past declines advances my friend, so maybe you should go back to talking alternatives for hp-% like original post intends n.n 1."maybe best tanker if mob doest have ailment" and "ninja not really tanker class" is contradicting? i dont get it. both "maybe" and "not really" implying its conditional. whats is contradicting there? 2. whether i should partying with ninja or not is not the issue here. the issue is what ninja do should if they end up partying with knight/gladiator/paladin/beast knight. you know as i mention earlier, some ninja shout lfp and random party pick them up end up partying with knight/gladiator/paladin/beast knight casting warcry in party. so need to anticipate n prepare for that. and another thing is if the mob/boss have ailments; that is they should let knight/gladiator/paladin/beast knight take front position. 3. about that argument about what kind weapon should monk and ench should use. my only comment is: at least they dont complain on warcry buff.4. yes im deviating from original intention of the thread, but yuhee opinoin caught my intention and but it indeed one of contributor of most ninja keep blocking warcry. because they fail to realise their job destined not to be tanker in all situation. their believe their 9 clones is more important than warcry buff in kind of all situatiom, i think they can survive with less than 9 clones, they just need to make sure not to be main target of mob/boss. There is no need to continue this out of topic matter, it is yet again another endless débat... for now... don't worry Rantau, the years of ninjas doing the tanking job is almost over and balance is starting to get back to the world of Iruna... the power of new EP4 & EP5 bosses will surpass their little ability to tank bosses with no ailment since, pretty much every new boss has lots of nasty ailment and resistance debuffs... and being proud of the ability to tank EP2 bosses while most classes will be able to solo farm them will be misplaced...
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Post by quitted on May 10, 2016 9:48:47 GMT
i dont want deviate the intention of thread further. i hope admins wont lock this thread because i might found new way to decrease maxhp percentage.
i show official asobimo description of ninja as rear position class to debunk delusion of absolute superiority of ninja clones. so i hope ninja start to change mentality on knight/gladiator/paladin/beast knight, not to complain on warcry all the time and learn to embrace it.
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Dragsbro
Community Contributor
I'm kind of a necromancer, as in playing with SK is just toying with dead stuff at this point
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Post by Dragsbro on May 10, 2016 11:40:05 GMT
In my opinion, ninja is one of these classes that has intentionnaly several ways of playing. I had read the I-mode blog about it long ago, and there's, i quote, "Magic attack more if INT · DEX · AGI, I think it is good to distribute a physical attack more if STR · AGI · CRT for status." We have magical and physicals atk, moreover the lv300 skills uses both. IMO you can decide to focus on one or to up them equally. Then, if you get a ninja in a pt with a gladiator, and that he is meant to tank, assuming he isa regular agi crt ninj, why don't he only uses 3 clones? Glad or others party members could easily do the DPS... About magic skills, i indeed consider it, in a pt, as support DPS, not like gladis or else who can effectively tank...i just feel like a hwiz with special skills x) Welp gtg, philosphy exam T.T
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Post by quitted on May 11, 2016 5:50:10 GMT
top post edited,added 1 new item light green egg
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