bravebor
Community Contributor
to slack to give a damn, yet to bored to not say anything...
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Post by bravebor on Oct 5, 2015 8:43:12 GMT
OK now I'm certain a number of you will know as does any1 that knows me just what my feelings pertaining to the ninja class are. Recently I've had a difference of opinion with a certain party as to what I see to be the realities of the ninja class, so I'm making this thread and putting it out there for ppl, those for and those against, to have their say.
With agi\crt build your about as safe if not more so than the vit tank builds out there along with being somewhat quicker to an extent to lvl its an easier class to get to a comfortable point to change class, either that or just buy the 100 lvls and pay some1 to kill mio (which is why I continue to say mio should be solo quest) and your at a point of lvling nicely on megas far earlier than other classes where it'll take another 40 lvls or so to get skills needed to do the same. As well as costing a mere fraction of your basic starter set of most classes if you go with the -105%hp set of Schwartz s, g.ring s, curse nail s and magic ring and for cloning possibly s.bangle all up costing less than 3m which will do you quite well till you lvl enough to farm certain bosses to get up spina needed for ganai and other equip to take you the rest of the way.
Now for the survivability and affordability of ninja class with the basic standard build and starting set makes this class extremely attractive to people new to the game and those without the patience to go another 40 lvls for full class and another how many more for the skills in most cases to be killing quickly. And yea sure IMO spina is better on simple all out aoe farm but in terms of boss farming there really isn't much competition if you wish to be at it as soon as possible.
All these points have essentially led me to some of my recent comments that this class is namely all about making asobmio money. Afterall, with its affordability and high degree of survivability, people new to the game who would otherwise possibly be turned off by time required to lvl to a point sufficient to get good equip and make spina are far more likely to stick it out and thereby giving asobimo a larger pool of people who would potentially pour money into item shop.
Now there are a good number of other things I would like to say on this such as poor hunter types being pushed out and rejected in favour of ninja, but on this topic I have said what I need to say and given my conclusions based as ever on logic and rationale. Thank you for hearing me out and I look forward to hearing every1s thoughts and opinions however varying.
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Post by Crysta|'s hubby on Oct 5, 2015 10:41:28 GMT
Question first of all have u ever tried lvling a ninja? Its easier to survive to kill mobs and everything but in terms of damage and killing speed ninja is possibly the slowest class to kill mobs unless u have insanely good gears or use speed hack thats y a large portion of ninjas change to minstrels until high lvl and u have so many squishy poorly geared minstrels at baums yes they can survive earlier than other classes and solo lvl but they still lvl far slower than any other classes except perhaps if a servant minstrel or bishop below 180 tried to lvl solo i personally do not like the ninja class myself even tho my first character was a ninja but i just dont like it for me its not a bad class just has a lot of bad players and ur mentioning schwartz curse nail gring and magical ring for clones is super low dps even for a ninja its like the most basic set u can have and only works until ur lvl 200 while a paladin can have wound transer hp+20% licht hp+20% stier up hp+20% and myrica ns and still far surpass ninja for really cheap of course thats not even the cheapest gear either but it still surpasses a ninja with 1-2 ganei with the gears u mentioned the reason so many low lvl newbies play as ninja is because they r fed lies of how ninja is immortal and told they can do 50k+ doc by other low lvl newbies they are not told the full details of ailments and 9 second skill delay etc so its not the ninja class to blame its the people feeding them wrong info be they ninjas or not ninja is in no way an easy class they can just take some heavy hits this is my opinion anyways do with it as u wish dont want to start a huge war with u or anything this is in no way meant to attack u just dont think its fair to judge and talk down on a whole class be it ninja sniper monk enchanter or whatever every class has its own purpose
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bravebor
Community Contributor
to slack to give a damn, yet to bored to not say anything...
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Post by bravebor on Oct 5, 2015 10:55:07 GMT
Question first of all have u ever tried lvling a ninja? Its easier to survive to kill mobs and everything but in terms of damage and killing speed ninja is possibly the slowest class to kill mobs unless u have insanely good gears or use speed hack thats y a large portion of ninjas change to minstrels until high lvl and u have so many squishy poorly geared minstrels at baums yes they can survive earlier than other classes and solo lvl but they still lvl far slower than any other classes except perhaps if a servant minstrel or bishop below 180 tried to lvl solo i personally do not like the ninja class myself even tho my first character was a ninja but i just dont like it for me its not a bad class just has a lot of bad players and ur mentioning schwartz curse nail gring and magical ring for clones is super low dps even for a ninja its like the most basic set u can have and only works until ur lvl 200 while a paladin can have wound transer hp+20% licht hp+20% stier up hp+20% and myrica ns and still far surpass ninja for really cheap of course thats not even the cheapest gear either but it still surpasses a ninja with 1-2 ganei with the gears u mentioned the reason so many low lvl newbies play as ninja is because they r fed lies of how ninja is immortal and told they can do 50k+ doc by other low lvl newbies they are not told the full details of ailments and 9 second skill delay etc so its not the ninja class to blame its the people feeding them wrong info be they ninjas or not ninja is in no way an easy class they can just take some heavy hits this is my opinion anyways do with it as u wish dont want to start a huge war with u or anything this is in no way meant to attack u just dont think its fair to judge and talk down on a whole class be it ninja sniper monk enchanter or whatever every class has its own purpose 1st, have you ever tried lvling paladin or spec sword samu? 2nd the key term is survivability of which even against high ailment bosses, so long as nin have the necessary pots and vacs they have a greater advantage over other classes, their main handicap is stun. And in terms of survival, as I told you in pm, it's something ik a good deal on, I would not still be breathing after certain exp and being amongst the ppl I have been through my life if I didn't know a thing or 2 about it. Also, I never mentioned anything about dps, what I stated is the class is the most affordable and has the best survivability for reasons I mentioned just before. Now if u can jump lvls quick in taking on high ent and megas, it negates the low dps you stated for the higher exp you can attain than other classes at that lvl, snatch enough quick lvls, go tank on mq, and you can soon go after equip for quicker kills. Bottom line is, it is the most affordable with the best rate of survival making it the most attractive, but yes, as you state to, it is also in part how it is talked up by ppl and it is likely stories of dmg by spec bow nin (which is just dex added) and doc spammers they are fed Soz to tag you again Jeancarlo but ik you have made comments yourself as to survivability of nin to those who have asked what would be cheap and easy class for them, so I would appreciate your opinion on this if that is alright.
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Post by Hiroshi★ on Oct 5, 2015 11:32:18 GMT
Yea , ninja had it easy at lvl 100 , atleast thats wht u thought but they arent really popular at AOE grinding pt cuz they dont hve aoe so theyre pretty hard to lvl
Meanwhile a pally have AOE that can target 3 mobs at once ( i can say pally is more easier to lvl with once they have their aoe at lvl 160 cuz i hve a pally once)
spec sword samurai , Hve a samurai too , their skill drain mp like mad another hard class to lvl (guess its special class"s curse ?) then again theyre going to hve a skill that can aoe , meanwhile we ninja"s dont( i think )
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bravebor
Community Contributor
to slack to give a damn, yet to bored to not say anything...
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Post by bravebor on Oct 5, 2015 12:16:46 GMT
Yea , ninja had it easy at lvl 100 , atleast thats wht u thought but they arent really popular at AOE grinding pt cuz they dont hve aoe so theyre pretty hard to lvl Meanwhile a pally have AOE that can target 3 mobs at once ( i can say pally is more easier to lvl with once they have their aoe at lvl 160 cuz i hve a pally once) spec sword samurai , Hve a samurai too , their skill drain mp like mad another hard class to lvl (guess its special class"s curse ?) then again theyre going to hve a skill that can aoe , meanwhile we ninja"s dont( i think ) Heh just takes an extra 60 lvl to get our aoe tho lol, tho when I was tryin to prod farm at 140 got shafted by hw coming in and spamming their eq -_- hit mq (solo of course like the rest of it)then from I think it was boss after himmle right through to moldus so could at least fight for my share on the lower lvl mobs (finally getting around now to making an hw for the higher lvl stuff I need, my guardian just can't compete) Nin I would say are by far more popular on boss farm tho sad as it is to say, I mainly just get roped in for the high stun mobs like mezza, tho of late I've seen quite a few requests for pal on raton
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Post by Umaru-chan on Oct 5, 2015 12:58:39 GMT
Yea , ninja had it easy at lvl 100 , atleast thats wht u thought but they arent really popular at AOE grinding pt cuz they dont hve aoe so theyre pretty hard to lvl Meanwhile a pally have AOE that can target 3 mobs at once ( i can say pally is more easier to lvl with once they have their aoe at lvl 160 cuz i hve a pally once) spec sword samurai , Hve a samurai too , their skill drain mp like mad another hard class to lvl (guess its special class"s curse ?) then again theyre going to hve a skill that can aoe , meanwhile we ninja"s dont( i think ) I was anticipating back then(maybe a yr ago) an aoe skill for ninjas hehe its called silent killing???(something like that haha might want to look it up on jp wiki tho not sure if asobimo replaced this nor is relased on jp servers) which works well tho with magic ninjas since from what iremember its based on Atk/matk/crt dmg?(not sure hehe) tho im not really sure if 2 targets would be classified as AoE ill try to paste skill description here
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Post by Umaru-chan on Oct 5, 2015 13:01:49 GMT
Yea , ninja had it easy at lvl 100 , atleast thats wht u thought but they arent really popular at AOE grinding pt cuz they dont hve aoe so theyre pretty hard to lvl Meanwhile a pally have AOE that can target 3 mobs at once ( i can say pally is more easier to lvl with once they have their aoe at lvl 160 cuz i hve a pally once) spec sword samurai , Hve a samurai too , their skill drain mp like mad another hard class to lvl (guess its special class"s curse ?) then again theyre going to hve a skill that can aoe , meanwhile we ninja"s dont( i think ) I was anticipating back then(maybe a yr ago) an aoe skill for ninjas hehe its called silent killing???(something like that haha might want to look it up on jp wiki tho not sure if asobimo replaced this nor is relased on jp servers) which works well tho with magic ninjas since from what iremember its based on Atk/matk/crt dmg?(not sure hehe) tho im not really sure if 2 targets would be classified as AoE ill try to paste skill description here DERP! Haha its not Aoe haha Sorry but just incase you want to know, here it is: Silence one killing And crept to the other party to issue click the blow of deadly. ATK, we do physical attack using MATK. Critical also occur at the time of throwing weapon equipped. SLv1 MP72 Quest [skill acquisition trial!] (Lv300) clear Damage Calculation {(Weapon ATK + own Lv- enemy Lv-DEF + ATK * 5/3 + MATK + random value) * attributes} * 5 * critical magnification random value = (ATK + MATK) * 0.01? Critical magnification similar calculation alter ego when using the damage reduction silence one killing damage and usually attack * (0.8-0.1 * m-0.05 * n) m = number of alter ego m> 3 is 0 n = alter ego number -3 n> 6 3 n <1 is action on the 0 delay until only 256? DEX Not the fastest in DEX only
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asteg
Dank Meme Lord
yar yar...wind at ye backs me fellows.
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Post by asteg on Oct 5, 2015 13:11:02 GMT
All paladins hate ninjas. They used to replace us in tanking partys...athough i got over it
Like kirito said, lvling a ninja sounds like ass, single mob dps, not alot of aoe partys,and you gotta buy vacs.
And do you really think if ninja was op class their would be so many sh?if ninja was so great why do you see them lfp at lower lvl bosses?
My guildie ninjams is a AWESOME ninja, he even helped my gladi out on alot of the ep 3 bosses (i think sinas to rua) and trust me.he ain't a nub. He put alot of effort into his ninja,as do ALL NON SH/LVL BUYING ninjas.
Some are newbs,some are actually hard workers, your shouldn't bash the class just because some make like seele's family and suck.
Also...ninja isint a asobimo money sucker...asobimo gets 0 profit from ppl becoming ninjas,asobimo makes money from the people that buy coins/tix with money they earned in that weird ass game called....real life @.@
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bravebor
Community Contributor
to slack to give a damn, yet to bored to not say anything...
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Post by bravebor on Oct 5, 2015 14:14:35 GMT
with its affordability and high degree of survivability, people new to the game who would otherwise possibly be turned off by time required to lvl to a point sufficient to get good equip and make spina are far more likely to stick it out and thereby giving asobimo a larger pool of people who would potentially pour money into item shop All paladins hate ninjas. They used to replace us in tanking partys...athough i got over it Like kirito said, lvling a ninja sounds like ass, single mob dps, not alot of aoe partys,and you gotta buy vacs. And do you really think if ninja was op class their would be so many sh?if ninja was so great why do you see them lfp at lower lvl bosses? My guildie ninjams is a AWESOME ninja, he even helped my gladi out on alot of the ep 3 bosses (i think sinas to rua) and trust me.he ain't a nub. He put alot of effort into his ninja,as do ALL NON SH/LVL BUYING ninjas. Some are newbs,some are actually hard workers, your shouldn't bash the class just because some make like seele's family and suck. Also...ninja isint a asobimo money sucker...asobimo gets 0 profit from ppl becoming ninjas,asobimo makes money from the people that buy coins/tix with money they earned in that weird ass game called....real life @.@ Yey real life *sniffles* omg miss that game, been out of action since Feb last yr with a savagely broken leg I nearly lost q.q (and right now my friend and work mate is up nth making Au$60 an hr -_-)
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Post by Jeancarlo on Oct 5, 2015 15:28:48 GMT
I read your OP 3x and still not sure what it is you want to discuss, lol
Is NIN easy? Yes and no. Easy to MQ yes, but once you get past MQ, you're stuck to the same scenario as you face from L140 onward. A 1-trick pony that, while having and excellent survivability, is limited to ONE skill. I just finished MQ on my NIN-to-be-Minstrel and he's L206. That's after starting MQ from L140. 66 levels from MQ, and now I'm looking at single target DPS for the "rest of his life" if he stayed as a NIN.
Mind you, in this ignorance can be bliss. If I didn't know what AOE classes can do compared to my NIN, I might be happy. But the bald fact is that even a tank guardian can dish out more cumulative DPS than a single target NIN. Even a nicely geared NIN can still only hit 1 mob at a time, and while a single hit from Guardian may be 1/5-2/3 of a NIN, they can multiply that 3x.
As for money maker, I have no idea. Only Asobimo can say anything about that. We can discuss it to death either way but that's all it'll be. Discussion.
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Post by Crysta| on Oct 5, 2015 19:26:39 GMT
At Lvl 100 it takes roughly 5 minutes for a ninja to kill 1 mega, if anything that's picking a slower lvling method than other mob/quests available.
Look at the top sellers in item shop: Expand storage, extract crysta, character slot, and stelfys books.
Asobimo has plenty of ways of making money, they make Avatar xtrade and undisposable. They release new skills which are almost useless without the restat book to change your build (I'm sure 9/10 Enchanter bought one when 220 skills were released)
Ninja can easily solo the MQ but there are handfuls of players that quit or become inactive once the MQ(fast lvling) stops. Those player aren't making Asobimo money for long. The players that pour money into the item shop are those with the patience to play over a period of time (years) The players who do production, have multiple character on one account, test new builds, etc. They aren't making much cash from the one's who reach Lvl 100 in a week or two then go on to finish MQ next week and quit because they realize it takes xxx amount of time to Lvl up.
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Post by simprince on Oct 5, 2015 22:00:11 GMT
I also think ninja is popular because they can easily solo MQ boss - well better with a pet. But after all MQ, we are all about lvl 19x (maybe 200 now?). From there to lvl to cap is extremely hard. We see a lot of hw/bishop/pally on high ent, shiki oni etc., sites for leveling fast but ninja does not work well there. So if you compare the number of ninja < lvl 200 with ninja > 250. The opt-out rate is huge. It is human nature to continue to play with decent reward from time to time. It takes bishop/glad/sniper so long to level to get their best skills and so it is so hard for them to give up after that.
As for boss fight, ninja works well for certain bosses, using only clone and doc is quite boring. Selling boss xtal is actually not very money making. Ganei is already rare and only sells for 15m. How many hours of continuous farming can you get a ganei xtal?
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Yazmat
Community Contributor
Pally Lv351 | Alchy Lv318
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Post by Yazmat on Oct 6, 2015 6:18:40 GMT
I also think ninja is popular because they can easily solo MQ boss - well better with a pet. But after all MQ, we are all about lvl 19x (maybe 200 now?). From there to lvl to cap is extremely hard. We see a lot of hw/bishop/pally on high ent, shiki oni etc., sites for leveling fast but ninja does not work well there. So if you compare the number of ninja < lvl 200 with ninja > 250. The opt-out rate is huge. It is human nature to continue to play with decent reward from time to time. It takes bishop/glad/sniper so long to level to get their best skills and so it is so hard for them to give up after that. As for boss fight, ninja works well for certain bosses, using only clone and doc is quite boring. Selling boss xtal is actually not very money making. Ganei is already rare and only sells for 15m. How many hours of continuous farming can you get a ganei xtal? Doing all MQ now makes you level 208. It is enough to for: . bishop to get nemesis . pally to get guardian (level 2!) . glady to get his aoe too (sword tempest or what is the name?!) pillar blade ... from there up it is far easier to lvl for them than for ninja as you said... and bish and pallys does not need lots of spina to do decent damage and spam their skill. yes ninja WAS faster (in lower levels) until mq was enough to get other classes their aoe skills
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Post by snake on Oct 6, 2015 7:03:18 GMT
glady to get his aoe too (sword tempest or what is the name?!) that's pillar blade, sword tempest at 220
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bravebor
Community Contributor
to slack to give a damn, yet to bored to not say anything...
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Post by bravebor on Oct 7, 2015 12:35:43 GMT
I also think ninja is popular because they can easily solo MQ boss - well better with a pet. But after all MQ, we are all about lvl 19x (maybe 200 now?). From there to lvl to cap is extremely hard. We see a lot of hw/bishop/pally on high ent, shiki oni etc., sites for leveling fast but ninja does not work well there. So if you compare the number of ninja < lvl 200 with ninja > 250. The opt-out rate is huge. It is human nature to continue to play with decent reward from time to time. It takes bishop/glad/sniper so long to level to get their best skills and so it is so hard for them to give up after that. As for boss fight, ninja works well for certain bosses, using only clone and doc is quite boring. Selling boss xtal is actually not very money making. Ganei is already rare and only sells for 15m. How many hours of continuous farming can you get a ganei xtal? Doing all MQ now makes you level 208. It is enough to for: . bishop to get nemesis . pally to get guardian (level 2!) . glady to get his aoe too (sword tempest or what is the name?!) pillar blade ... from there up it is far easier to lvl for them than for ninja as you said... and bish and pallys does not need lots of spina to do decent damage and spam their skill. yes ninja WAS faster (in lower levels) until mq was enough to get other classes their aoe skills Actually pal and samu need a bucket load (talkin dozer style bucket here) to spam there skills, idk deal for samu tho I do know it's skills drain mp like crazy, but with pal where it's enough to just keep up with mp, when you learn guardian and gotta keep up with hp also, unless your like a certain 2 pals I won't name lol your needing op pots to play op style (I'm making an hw now just to farm the slice of cactus from twin cactus that I need to make binal L and buying sp rev at 5 stk at a time for around 500-600k per stk x.x ) only thing that killed me on bosses such as gueval was the struggle to keep up with both mp AND hp
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