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Post by Tilt*Madara on Mar 24, 2015 19:41:32 GMT
Though I Somewhat understand it, I wish they'd cancel the Nemesis penalty on bosses and rares. I understand why it's wanted to take it away but I'm personally for it staying. Maybe having it reduced would be nice but Bishops don't need to be hitting 60k+ Nemesis on bosses lol. I'd say if they could top out at about 40k it would be fine. That puts them at around what Pallies are capable of damage wise and a little less than Chanters in tank gear. I don't really want to invite nub Bishops to DPS on bosses they shouldn't too much xD. 40k with great gear probably won't make them want to do that lol. Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival.
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 24, 2015 19:57:05 GMT
I understand why it's wanted to take it away but I'm personally for it staying. Maybe having it reduced would be nice but Bishops don't need to be hitting 60k+ Nemesis on bosses lol. I'd say if they could top out at about 40k it would be fine. That puts them at around what Pallies are capable of damage wise and a little less than Chanters in tank gear. I don't really want to invite nub Bishops to DPS on bosses they shouldn't too much xD. 40k with great gear probably won't make them want to do that lol. Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival. It's not the same in a party though as counters are pretty poor unless you are tanking. I also rarely see a Bishop tanking stuff even though it does happen every now and then. I think it would be nice for Bishops to do a little DPS while not tanking in boss farms as, especially new bosses, have lots of HP but require almost no healing and Bishops kinda end up just sitting there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 20:19:20 GMT
Pally's can use counter proc gears as well, this new shield, grim shield, would outdo bishops in counter procs imo as its hidden skill is crosscounter. I can see a pally abusing that far more than a bishop and counter damage wise. Even with counter's that bishops have there are berserk paladins out there that can do some serious damage, you should meet some of them one day xD But still you wouldn't see bishops tanking bosses in parties unless they get desperate lol.
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Post by Jeancarlo on Mar 24, 2015 20:39:02 GMT
I understand why it's wanted to take it away but I'm personally for it staying. Maybe having it reduced would be nice but Bishops don't need to be hitting 60k+ Nemesis on bosses lol. I'd say if they could top out at about 40k it would be fine. That puts them at around what Pallies are capable of damage wise and a little less than Chanters in tank gear. I don't really want to invite nub Bishops to DPS on bosses they shouldn't too much xD. 40k with great gear probably won't make them want to do that lol. Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival. Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival. It's not the same in a party though as counters are pretty poor unless you are tanking. I also rarely see a Bishop tanking stuff even though it does happen every now and then. I think it would be nice for Bishops to do a little DPS while not tanking in boss farms as, especially new bosses, have lots of HP but require almost no healing and Bishops kinda end up just sitting there. Pally's can use counter proc gears as well, this new shield, grim shield, would outdo bishops in counter procs imo as its hidden skill is crosscounter. I can see a pally abusing that far more than a bishop and counter damage wise. Even with counter's that bishops have there are berserk paladins out there that can do some serious damage, you should meet some of them one day xD But still you wouldn't see bishops tanking bosses in parties unless they get desperate lol. Sorry don't mean to take this off topic, but this is exactly why I wish Asobimo would lay off the Nemesis reduction. Don't take this the wrong way guys (sans Tilt, as I think she got where I'm coming from) but why only think of Bish being PTs? Problem with Neme reduction is that it's On All The Time, whether we're solo or not. I mean come on; I was farming Blaiard for a sword and I (L246 Bish) was hitting a L70(?) boss for 8-9K My viola hits him for 13-14K... It takes 3-4 Nemesis to kill this 2nd MQ boss... Same crap when I farmed f'ing FERZEN for Iron armor.... 2 Nemesis to kill him. Yay OP Bish...
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Post by Tilt*Madara on Mar 24, 2015 20:46:53 GMT
Yea I forgot about the berserk pallys. Havnt seen any of them yet. Are they like vit/crt or something??
A full set counter on a paladin? I couldnt really see to much damage per proc. It would have to be pretty high proc% for each counter and you would need the matk or atk to make the damage worth it. But idk lol ill need to see that. It would be cool though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 20:53:22 GMT
Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival. It's not the same in a party though as counters are pretty poor unless you are tanking. I also rarely see a Bishop tanking stuff even though it does happen every now and then. I think it would be nice for Bishops to do a little DPS while not tanking in boss farms as, especially new bosses, have lots of HP but require almost no healing and Bishops kinda end up just sitting there. Pally's can use counter proc gears as well, this new shield, grim shield, would outdo bishops in counter procs imo as its hidden skill is crosscounter. I can see a pally abusing that far more than a bishop and counter damage wise. Even with counter's that bishops have there are berserk paladins out there that can do some serious damage, you should meet some of them one day xD But still you wouldn't see bishops tanking bosses in parties unless they get desperate lol. Sorry don't mean to take this off topic, but this is exactly why I wish Asobimo would lay off the Nemesis reduction. Don't take this the wrong way guys (sans Tilt, as I think she got where I'm coming from) but why only think of Bish being PTs? Problem with Neme reduction is that it's On All The Time, whether we're solo or not. I mean come on; I was farming Blaiard for a sword and I (L246 Bish) was hitting a L70(?) boss for 8-9K My viola hits him for 13-14K... It takes 3-4 Nemesis to kill this 2nd MQ boss... Same crap when I farmed f'ing FERZEN for Iron armor.... 2 Nemesis to kill him. Yay OP Bish... Bishops would be too op lol they already have high heals why give em op damage too? xD, personally i see it as a double edge, in order to sustain your support role within parties of course asobimo needs to nerf nemesis on bosses, it only seems fair lol. Well, you do have magic sword bishops out there so that replaces nemesis on some bosses if you'd want to try it, I've seen a video of it soloing dooms pretty fast... just one sec ill see if i can find it.
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Post by Stacy's Mom on Mar 24, 2015 20:55:19 GMT
Yea I forgot about the berserk pallys. Havnt seen any of them yet. Are they like vit/crt or something?? A full set counter on a paladin? I couldnt really see to much damage per proc. It would have to be pretty high proc% for each counter and you would need the matk or atk to make the damage worth it. But idk lol ill need to see that. It would be cool though. from what i recall stun parry rate and dmg is affected by crt aswell i've thought of pally with resty rod/dpr/viola would be fun as hell since i'm vit/int but no money to invest in this yet. shields have some interesting counters, i think one has counter chance with damage cancelling chance.
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Post by Tilt*Madara on Mar 24, 2015 21:38:19 GMT
Yea bish should be one of the top dpm when it comes to mobs atleast. Litcher mixed with nem could potentially mean Spamming 50-70k no boost, 80-100k damage with resty boost,110- 120k with apo and spellboost, and 160+(best before I got megustis was 179k) with all buffs plus a spellburst proc. This could happen every 3 seconds for a while (not spellburst) since they are so efficient with regaining lost mp.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 22:14:06 GMT
Well yeah if its mob its an entire different story, bishops would be in competition for dps against mobs for damage output, would be hard to tell between imperial vs dual blade samurais vs nemesis lol.
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 24, 2015 23:14:00 GMT
I created another thread about the Nemesis damage cut topic xD. It's interesting to think about to me as I love talking about class balance haha. I posted it in the Bishop section It's also off topic here lol link
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Mar 25, 2015 1:46:32 GMT
Yea I forgot about the berserk pallys. Havnt seen any of them yet. Are they like vit/crt or something?? A full set counter on a paladin? I couldnt really see to much damage per proc. It would have to be pretty high proc% for each counter and you would need the matk or atk to make the damage worth it. But idk lol ill need to see that. It would be cool though. I would think the build would be max VIT, max STR, rest CRT to balance the guardian capabilty (or not lose out on the tanking capability). Either that or max STR max CRT rest VIT. I haven't seen one (primarily because Pallys don't party with Pallys. xD). I planned to try the build unfortunately I only have 1 stefyl and was not able to get an extra on the freeboxes. But I'm pretty sure they would be solid DPS on Guardian+Counter+Stun Parry against multi mob, especially versus dark. For solo boss grind they would just ATK/CRT gear and berserk (maybe use guardian during barrier). That's how I'd see them (or at least how I would build it).
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Post by Kirin。 on Mar 28, 2015 9:52:47 GMT
I understand why it's wanted to take it away but I'm personally for it staying. Maybe having it reduced would be nice but Bishops don't need to be hitting 60k+ Nemesis on bosses lol. I'd say if they could top out at about 40k it would be fine. That puts them at around what Pallies are capable of damage wise and a little less than Chanters in tank gear. I don't really want to invite nub Bishops to DPS on bosses they shouldn't too much xD. 40k with great gear probably won't make them want to do that lol. Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival. Been doing this from lvl50-90 on neknotts sadly i dont have much playing time to grind some more exp
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Post by Kirin。 on Mar 28, 2015 9:52:57 GMT
I understand why it's wanted to take it away but I'm personally for it staying. Maybe having it reduced would be nice but Bishops don't need to be hitting 60k+ Nemesis on bosses lol. I'd say if they could top out at about 40k it would be fine. That puts them at around what Pallies are capable of damage wise and a little less than Chanters in tank gear. I don't really want to invite nub Bishops to DPS on bosses they shouldn't too much xD. 40k with great gear probably won't make them want to do that lol. Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival. Been doing this from lvl50-90 on neknotts sadly i dont have much playing time to grind some more exp
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Post by funspeed on Mar 28, 2015 16:54:36 GMT
I understand why it's wanted to take it away but I'm personally for it staying. Maybe having it reduced would be nice but Bishops don't need to be hitting 60k+ Nemesis on bosses lol. I'd say if they could top out at about 40k it would be fine. That puts them at around what Pallies are capable of damage wise and a little less than Chanters in tank gear. I don't really want to invite nub Bishops to DPS on bosses they shouldn't too much xD. 40k with great gear probably won't make them want to do that lol. Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival. I saw a video of a counter bishop and it seems like something I'd want to try out. What constitutes a bishop counter set?
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Post by ManaKhe on Mar 28, 2015 23:01:54 GMT
Bishops best dps comes through counters. If a counter set and resty is used it easily beats paladin. The faster the boss, the more damage, the slower the boss the more survival. I saw a video of a counter bishop and it seems like something I'd want to try out. What constitutes a bishop counter set? Tilt can answer this better than I can but I'm gonna take from her guide here real quick. It doesn't explicitly list a counter set but she does mention if they have a counter. Resty Rod for the Spell Boost buff Viola for the Dark Counter Dark Priest Robe UP for the autoskill and another Counter Dnewt/Brave Bangle Mezza This also comes from my knowledge as an Enchanter on counters haha. There are probably other good options as well.
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