Eaysley
Community Contributor
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Feb 14, 2016 5:49:17 GMT
Gladiator Ultimi up Dorry Tech2 Daiginjo Raton Tech5 Black Barette Tech4 Alteta Ring Beelzenoid Fide Espada Vatendeth R/G Maelriel Cheltil Gauchel Valtia Zazel Misses happen when your level is lower than the mob. Even with Dai up and Atleta I still wont miss. Tested with my gladiator (256crt). Helshaft (+30 rate) Shiorito (+12 rate) 3x techs (+25, +20, +15) I use berserk and I still get some white damage wearing daiginjo so the formula works for me. Per the formula I have 57% which looks just about right since majority of my attacks are crits now. Your case remains to be a puzzle for me. Mine's not majority. It was the same crt rate as though I had no negative crt rate (@95%). Thanks for your input, I guess. I'm still gonna wait for someone else who may have a more sure answer. Cause something's not adding up.
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Eaysley
Community Contributor
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Feb 14, 2016 5:52:25 GMT
I can confirm daiginjo is not flat rate. When I wear it with suigetsu for my sin, I won't see critical at all when I do normal attack. Yeah I tested the same with suigetsu and have the same conclusion. You don't really need to test if it's flat or percentile. It's in its description.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 14, 2016 6:04:48 GMT
Yeah I tested the same with suigetsu and have the same conclusion. You don't really need to test if it's flat or percentile. It's in its description. Yes I know but I had to confirm it because your rate doesn't follow the formula unlike the rest of my chars. The only thing I don't have is 375crt, although I also confirmed with 256 CRT that the rate is affected by daiginjo 70% penalty. Everything seems to work as advertised except for your case. The suspicion now is if 3crt is indeed 1rate
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Eaysley
Community Contributor
"These violent delights have violent ends."
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Post by Eaysley on Feb 14, 2016 6:22:35 GMT
You don't really need to test if it's flat or percentile. It's in its description. Yes I know but I had to confirm it because your rate doesn't follow the formula unlike the rest of my chars. The only thing I don't have is 375crt, although I also confirmed with 256 CRT that the rate is affected by daiginjo 70% penalty. Everything seems to work as advertised except for your case. That's unusual. I wish I took screenshots before I resold them. I should mention too that one of my gladi friends with 400 Crit only uses Mamonea, Ultimi up and Techs 4 and 5 and he's almost never produce white (not just Tempest, includes Pillar and auto). Using the formula here, he should have like 50 or 60 too estimated. Which doesn't look like that to me. How often does your gladiator produce white auto? Even with cap, there is a 5% chance of white. I think there's something really off with the formula in the guide. If you come to look at it, it seems that you need a lot of flat crit rate just to compensate for negative percentile crit rate. It doesn't add up and it doesn't seem right when you do test it ingame. Feels like there's a missing set of parentheses or something. Idk lol.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 14, 2016 7:00:12 GMT
Yes I know but I had to confirm it because your rate doesn't follow the formula unlike the rest of my chars. The only thing I don't have is 375crt, although I also confirmed with 256 CRT that the rate is affected by daiginjo 70% penalty. Everything seems to work as advertised except for your case. That's unusual. I wish I took screenshots before I resold them. I should mention too that one of my gladi friends with 400 Crit only uses Mamonea, Ultimi up and Techs 4 and 5 and he's almost never produce white (not just Tempest, includes Pillar and auto). Using the formula here, he should have like 50 or 60 too estimated. Which doesn't look like that to me. How often does your gladiator produce white auto? Even with cap, there is a 5% chance of white. I think there's something really off with the formula in the guide. If you come to look at it, it seems that you need a lot of flat crit rate just to compensate for negative percentile crit rate. It doesn't add up and it doesn't seem right when you do test it ingame. Feels like there's a missing set of parentheses or something. Idk lol. No CRT gear no daiginjo 8 whites in 83 strikes (around 90% crit) No CRT gear with daiginjo 20 crits in 77 strikes (around 26% crit) With the crit rate gear I mentioned I got: 36 whites in 98 strikes (around 63% crit) Of course we need to consider margin for errors since we have a small sample size. I do have some increase in rate with the gear, which doesn't add up. Maybe the techs give more than the assumed +25crit rate. BTW, mamonea negates daiginjo so he gets 60% penalty instead of 70%
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 14, 2016 8:33:34 GMT
Further test with my pally (1crt) with only 1 techLv.5
36 crits out of 100 strikes 39 crits out of 100 strikes 34 crits out of 100 strikes.
So maybe a tech5 is +30 instead of a +25. I suspect a tech 4 is +25, per my run with a tech 4 and 5:
41 whites out of 100 strikes (59% crit rate)
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mokie
Community Contributor
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Post by mokie on Feb 15, 2016 1:36:24 GMT
I just want to give some more result. I have 411crt with assassin class and level40+ guild. So, my overall crt should be 427 without buff. When I wore daiginjo without any flat rate cri status. I found out I do around 60-65%. I hit 6 orange and 4 white damages per gigante when I test. Sometimes, I hit 7 orange and 4 white damages. It is 15%-20% more than it should be by crt/3 rule.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 15, 2016 2:17:09 GMT
I just want to give some more result. I have 411crt with assassin class and level40+ guild. So, my overall crt should be 427 without buff. When I wore daiginjo without any flat rate cri status. I found out I do around 60-65%. I hit 6 orange and 4 white damages per gigante when I test. Sometimes, I hit 7 orange and 4 white damages. It is 15%-20% more than it should be by crt/3 rule. What gears? And you don't have mamonea right?
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mokie
Community Contributor
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Post by mokie on Feb 15, 2016 2:53:35 GMT
I just want to give some more result. I have 411crt with assassin class and level40+ guild. So, my overall crt should be 427 without buff. When I wore daiginjo without any flat rate cri status. I found out I do around 60-65%. I hit 6 orange and 4 white damages per gigante when I test. Sometimes, I hit 7 orange and 4 white damages. It is 15%-20% more than it should be by crt/3 rule. What gears? And you don't have mamonea right? I tested this with no AI xtals on page 2. I wore prescience(because it has no cri rate+), chain mail, daiginjo. I didn't wear any special gear when I test this.
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mokie
Community Contributor
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Post by mokie on Feb 15, 2016 2:56:40 GMT
Like I said, this really confuses me now. I tried to google a lot of jp pages, but I found nothing new. I just found some comments from jp players talking about this, but there is no formula that is useful.
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mokie
Community Contributor
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Post by mokie on Feb 15, 2016 3:18:07 GMT
Gladiator Ultimi up Dorry Tech2 Daiginjo Raton Tech5 Black Barette Tech4 Alteta Ring Beelzenoid Fide Espada Vatendeth R/G Maelriel Cheltil Gauchel Valtia Zazel Misses happen when your level is lower than the mob. Even with Dai up and Atleta I still wont miss. Tested with my gladiator (256crt). Helshaft (+30 rate) Shiorito (+12 rate) 3x techs (+25, +20, +15) I use berserk and I still get some white damage wearing daiginjo so the formula works for me. Per the formula I have 57% which looks just about right since majority of my attacks are crits now. Your case remains to be a puzzle for me. If 256crt really giving 90%(85%and 5%base) cri rate is true, may crt after 256 be using different formula? Just guessing. I think crt/3 rule is found before apostolia, this theory might be possible. Something might not be the same after 256. Like some skills, dex overthan 256 will not reduce more delay. Like evasion rate, agi over than 256 will not add extra avoidance(Only adding AVD).
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 15, 2016 3:35:37 GMT
Tested with my gladiator (256crt). Helshaft (+30 rate) Shiorito (+12 rate) 3x techs (+25, +20, +15) I use berserk and I still get some white damage wearing daiginjo so the formula works for me. Per the formula I have 57% which looks just about right since majority of my attacks are crits now. Your case remains to be a puzzle for me. If 256crt really giving 90%(85%and 5%base) cri rate is true, may crt after 256 be using different formula? Just guessing. I think crt/3 rule is found before apostolia, this theory might be possible. Something might not be the same after 256. Like some skills, dex overthan 256 will not reduce more delay. Like evasion rate, agi over than 256 will not add extra avoidance(Only adding AVD). By reversing math your rate of 60% to 65% suggests that each rate is CRT/2. I will try to test this with more data. It might be possible that I am just capped at 90% although I have more rate and the data provided was merely coincidental. Bigger sample size should help clear this. I doubt that there would be a different formula for apostolia or without. It just doesn't make sense to me. It makes programming more complex and it doesn't really bring any good value to have 2 formulas.
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mokie
Community Contributor
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Post by mokie on Feb 15, 2016 3:43:00 GMT
If 256crt really giving 90%(85%and 5%base) cri rate is true, may crt after 256 be using different formula? Just guessing. I think crt/3 rule is found before apostolia, this theory might be possible. Something might not be the same after 256. Like some skills, dex overthan 256 will not reduce more delay. Like evasion rate, agi over than 256 will not add extra avoidance(Only adding AVD). By reversing math your rate of 60% to 65% suggests that each rate is CRT/2. I will try to test this with more data. It might be possible that I am just capped at 90% although I have more rate and the data provided was merely coincidental. Bigger sample size should help clear this. I doubt that there would be a different formula for apostolia or without. It just doesn't make sense to me. It makes programming more complex and it doesn't really bring any good value to have 2 formulas. Interesting. I just build a new monk. I have 200crt now, so I might test crt/2, now.
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mokie
Community Contributor
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Post by mokie on Feb 15, 2016 4:17:05 GMT
Result is coming!! 200crt and 1 schlingel xtal(I wore sion 2imseti, adventurer grab ns, and yellow glasses schlingel) I thought crt/2 rule will be exact 95% with this set. But!! 100 white and 172 orange. 63.235% from the test
From the crt/3 rule, (200-1/3)%+5%-10%=61.333%. I think crt/3 is still correct for my monk.
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Post by MiLiGRiTo on Feb 15, 2016 4:51:54 GMT
Result is coming!! 200crt and 1 schlingel xtal(I wore sion 2imseti, adventurer grab ns, and yellow glasses schlingel) I thought crt/2 rule will be exact 95% with this set. But!! 100 white and 172 orange. 63.235% from the test From the crt/3 rule, (200-1/3)%+5%-10%=61.333%. I think crt/3 is still correct for my monk. Looks just right. The puzzle continues..
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